WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.700 We've put together a little evening to close this absolutely incredible day. 2 00:00:03.700 --> 00:00:07.300 I know that some of you also took part in workshops during the day. 3 00:00:07.300 --> 00:00:09.600 What we can say is that this initiative 4 00:00:09.600 --> 00:00:12.100 mobilised widely, 5 00:00:12.100 --> 00:00:16.500 and I can't help naming a few emblematic places: Le Tampon in Réunion, 6 00:00:16.500 --> 00:00:22.500 Macouria in French Guiana, Nantes, Marseille, Saint-Étienne, Commercy, 7 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:27.100 Romainville, Nice, Joué-lès-Tours - all the points lit up on the map today. 8 00:00:27.100 --> 00:00:31.500 And of course we thank everyone running these projects, who are 9 00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:35.300 helping make this first Map Day an incredible moment. 10 00:00:35.300 --> 00:00:39.400 We know we also have volunteers abroad, since we're told that in 11 00:00:39.400 --> 00:00:40.900 Athens, Cambridge, 12 00:00:40.900 --> 00:00:42.200 Lausanne, Montreal, Dakar, 13 00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.000 points are lighting up too. And there's even a rumour going round that 14 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:48.000 the South Pole is joining in as well. 15 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:52.000 We'll come back to that. In any case, well done to everyone running a project, 16 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:57.300 well done for this collective effort. So this evening we have around 115 events 17 00:00:57.300 --> 00:00:59.800 listed in France and beyond. And 18 00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:03.040 more than 300 people have downloaded La République des cartes' 19 00:01:03.040 --> 00:01:06.040 available resources - for a first initiative, 20 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:11.240 we're obviously delighted, and we think there's a real need in France to 21 00:01:11.240 --> 00:01:13.040 hand people the keys to maps so they can make democracy. 22 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:17.140 So tonight we have an evening in several parts, but I'll hand over 23 00:01:17.140 --> 00:01:21.640 straight away to Sébastien Soriano, director general of IGN, to tell us 24 00:01:21.640 --> 00:01:23.140 a little about La République des cartes. 25 00:01:23.140 --> 00:01:28.540 Good evening, Sébastien. Good evening Claire, and good evening to you all. 26 00:01:28.540 --> 00:01:34.540 I've often begun sentences in the past by saying "although I'm not a 27 00:01:34.540 --> 00:01:39.340 cartographer" - because I'm not trained as a geographer or a 28 00:01:39.340 --> 00:01:44.840 cartographer. I can see some faces from IGN smiling at that phrase. 29 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:50.140 Tonight I'll begin with a promise: I will not use 30 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:54.940 that phrase again this evening. I'm joining the community of 31 00:01:54.940 --> 00:01:57.940 cartographers for good. 32 00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:02.280 Let me start with greetings from people who aren't here yet: the chair 33 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:07.180 of IGN's board, whom I salute, is on his way, as is 34 00:02:07.180 --> 00:02:11.980 the deputy director of the general commission for sustainable development, 35 00:02:11.980 --> 00:02:15.980 IGN's supervising body, who will also be joining us. 36 00:02:15.980 --> 00:02:21.080 So, ladies and gentlemen heading administrations, companies and 37 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:25.180 associations. I'd also like to greet the ladies and gentlemen of 38 00:02:25.180 --> 00:02:29.280 La République des cartes' steering committee, and its chair Maxime 39 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:31.980 Blondeau, whom I can't find right now - 40 00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:36.580 there he is, up there. And also Karine Hurel, whom I really want to salute, 41 00:02:36.580 --> 00:02:38.980 since she's the one who opened this Map Day: 42 00:02:38.980 --> 00:02:41.080 she was on the airwaves this morning. 43 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:47.080 Thank you to her. Dear cartographers, geographers, surveyors, engineers, 44 00:02:47.080 --> 00:02:48.380 craftspeople, draughtspeople, explorers. 45 00:02:48.380 --> 00:02:52.780 I'll let you fill in the dots, and read them all in the feminine too. 46 00:02:52.780 --> 00:02:58.780 Dear partners, first and foremost, because La République des cartes is 47 00:02:58.780 --> 00:03:04.420 a coalition. A coalition of people united by one vision, one 48 00:03:04.420 --> 00:03:09.820 ambition: to reveal the power of the map and make it a democratic tool 49 00:03:09.820 --> 00:03:14.920 in the hands of our fellow citizens. So I salute our earliest partners: 50 00:03:14.920 --> 00:03:20.320 the Banque des Territoires, Olivier Sichel, Antoine Saintoyant, Laetitia Dordain, 51 00:03:20.320 --> 00:03:23.920 Aurélie Charlet. Leonard, of the 52 00:03:23.920 --> 00:03:29.920 Vinci group, Julien Villalongue. La Fabrique de la Cité, Céline Acharian, 53 00:03:29.920 --> 00:03:35.820 with whom we were earlier. And OVHcloud, Octave Klaba, Anaïs Dubosc, 54 00:03:35.820 --> 00:03:41.720 Bisquay. Then those who joined us later: Ubisoft, and Deborah Papiernik, 55 00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:45.820 Annick, whom I've just seen come in, Eve Ben-Haïm, who was with us this morning 56 00:03:45.820 --> 00:03:51.820 and is here too. The studio NoDesign, Jean-Louis Fréchin, whom I saw 57 00:03:51.820 --> 00:03:54.520 at the back, hiding - trying to hide clumsily, but we can see him 58 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:59.720 anyway - and Loïc Le Guen. And then a partner 59 00:03:59.760 --> 00:04:03.660 who joined us more recently: Docaposte, of the La Poste group, 60 00:04:03.660 --> 00:04:07.060 through Benoît Pariset and Morgane Thuillier. 61 00:04:07.060 --> 00:04:13.060 So thank you for believing in this slightly mad venture - 62 00:04:13.060 --> 00:04:15.560 we can admit it was mad, at least to begin with. 63 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:19.360 I hope today's proof of concept will convince you. 64 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.060 I'd also like to thank those who supported us, who gave us 65 00:04:23.060 --> 00:04:28.260 means and help: CY École de Design, the national council for 66 00:04:28.260 --> 00:04:33.360 geolocated information, AOC the news site, La Fille Géo, Open Data France, 67 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.460 the Gustave Eiffel University foundation, and the Paris planning agency. 68 00:04:38.460 --> 00:04:43.060 What does the "A" stand for? The Apur, the Atelier parisien 69 00:04:43.060 --> 00:04:49.060 d'urbanisme. Thank you very much. I 70 00:04:49.060 --> 00:04:54.060 won't make a long speech, because I'm going to do much better than that - 71 00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:57.160 well, better for me: I had a lot of fun putting something together. 72 00:04:59.700 --> 00:05:05.300 Who hasn't dreamt of being one of the founding fathers of the American 73 00:05:05.300 --> 00:05:10.900 Revolution, of writing the articles of the Constitution? Or of being a 74 00:05:10.900 --> 00:05:14.300 revolutionary working on the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen? 75 00:05:14.300 --> 00:05:18.500 Or of being Olympe de Gouges, writing the Declaration of the Rights of Woman? 76 00:05:18.500 --> 00:05:24.500 Or, less well known, one of my digital references, John Perry Barlow, who, 77 00:05:24.500 --> 00:05:29.100 after speaking at Davos and a few drinks, wrote the Declaration 78 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:35.100 of the Independence of Cyberspace. Preamble. 79 00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:41.000 The cartographic people, gathered on this first Map 80 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:47.000 Day, solemnly proclaim their attachment to the free representation of 81 00:05:47.000 --> 00:05:52.200 the world. Let me say this is entirely personal, and let me also 82 00:05:52.200 --> 00:05:54.200 remind you that the French Republic is one and indivisible. 83 00:05:54.200 --> 00:06:00.140 So take it with a pinch of salt. Whereas the temptations 84 00:06:00.140 --> 00:06:05.440 of domination and of withdrawal are growing stronger, the cartographic people 85 00:06:05.440 --> 00:06:10.240 hold it particularly necessary in our time to reaffirm the founding 86 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:16.240 principles of a republican cartography. Article one: La 87 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:19.540 République des cartes is diverse, distributed and democratic. 88 00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:24.340 It has no borders but those of imagination and of alliance. 89 00:06:24.340 --> 00:06:29.740 Its organisation is that of a monster of cooperation 90 00:06:29.740 --> 00:06:35.540 acclaiming dynamics and visions, 91 00:06:35.540 --> 00:06:41.440 combining - careful, this is tricky - combining teeming multiplication 92 00:06:41.440 --> 00:06:47.440 and the building of an unpredictable assemblage, 93 00:06:47.440 --> 00:06:52.440 held together, for all its motley, by the cartographic joy that unites it. 94 00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:58.440 Don't worry, we're nearly there. Article two: 95 00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:00.580 La République des cartes has no language; 96 00:07:00.580 --> 00:07:04.480 it has legends. Its emblem - 97 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:10.380 it isn't here, it's up there - 98 00:07:10.380 --> 00:07:14.880 its emblem is a medallion where the Republic joins the earth, the sea and 99 00:07:14.880 --> 00:07:16.680 the stars. Its anthem - 100 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.580 you'll hear it shortly, and even help compose it. A teaser. 101 00:07:21.580 --> 00:07:25.280 Its motto is: geography 102 00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:30.380 serves first of all to read the earth, and also to write it. 103 00:07:30.380 --> 00:07:36.380 Its principle is the power of maps, by the people and for the people. 104 00:07:36.380 --> 00:07:42.380 Article three: cartographic sovereignty belongs to those, 105 00:07:42.380 --> 00:07:47.980 human and non-human, who live in, cross, inhabit, skirt around and 106 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:53.480 dream up real and imaginary spaces. No state, 107 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:59.380 no company, no algorithm may impose its 108 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:05.320 vision of the world - that's the important sentence. Article 109 00:08:05.320 --> 00:08:11.320 four: no one may be troubled for what they choose to show or hide, classify or 110 00:08:11.320 --> 00:08:16.120 mix, describe or divert, generalise or zoom in on. 111 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:21.620 Contradiction, controversy and counter-proposal 112 00:08:21.620 --> 00:08:26.720 are imprescriptible and inalienable cartographic rights - just 113 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:31.920 like the simple happiness of gazing at a map and travelling through an atlas. 114 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.820 It was too tempting, really. 115 00:08:34.820 --> 00:08:37.520 Thank you for your attention. 116 00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:43.520 Through 117 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:51.520 this Constitution of La République des cartes, 118 00:08:51.520 --> 00:08:55.120 what I wanted to share with you is my own road of wonders, which is what 119 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:58.420 setting up this Map Day and this whole coalition has been. 120 00:08:59.460 --> 00:09:04.160 I hope this evening will let you share in the sum of 121 00:09:04.160 --> 00:09:05.860 all the fine things we've met along the way. 122 00:09:05.860 --> 00:09:10.760 I'd also like to thank, from the bottom of my heart, 123 00:09:10.760 --> 00:09:14.460 Emmanuelle Roux, who carried this initiative. 124 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:20.460 Now, 125 00:09:20.660 --> 00:09:23.560 everyone at IGN must surely have told her this will never work, 126 00:09:23.560 --> 00:09:25.360 give it up. 127 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:27.860 So thank you, Emmanuelle. And through 128 00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:31.960 Emmanuelle, of course - I know it's a whole coalition of people who got 129 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:35.660 involved, and Emmanuelle will speak about it herself shortly. 130 00:09:35.660 --> 00:09:41.560 I have only one thing left to say: mapping 131 00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:46.160 citizens of all countries, unite! Well done. 132 00:09:46.160 --> 00:09:51.960 Thank you very much, thank you, thank you. 133 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:53.860 There we are. And bravo for the shirt, too. 134 00:09:53.860 --> 00:09:59.060 I hope you all noted that very artistic touch. 135 00:09:59.400 --> 00:10:03.100 To stay with the senses and with wonder, I'm going to call up Stéphane 136 00:10:03.100 --> 00:10:06.100 Gabet, who's right here. Stéphane is a singer. 137 00:10:06.100 --> 00:10:09.000 He's a guitarist. He's also a musical facilitator. 138 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.000 He innovates inside companies, and he researches something I find 139 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.800 particularly poetic: the future of sound in society. He's going to talk to us 140 00:10:16.800 --> 00:10:20.000 about the links between music and maps - or rather, get us practising, in the 141 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.900 company of his fellow musicians Raphaël and Thomas, who are not far away, 142 00:10:22.900 --> 00:10:25.900 I think. So I'll hand the microphone straight to Stéphane. 143 00:10:25.900 --> 00:10:31.700 Thank you Claire. Hello everyone. 144 00:10:31.700 --> 00:10:32.500 Hello. 145 00:10:32.500 --> 00:10:38.500 A 146 00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:46.000 different look at the world, a step to one side, an openness to dialogue and to new 147 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:51.700 imaginings. When Emmanuelle told me about the La République des cartes project, 148 00:10:51.700 --> 00:10:57.000 I was curious at first, and then she started showing me some 149 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:59.200 maps - in particular the 150 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:02.940 map of the gender of street names. And I thought: wow, 151 00:11:02.940 --> 00:11:08.740 there is so much to be said about this, about all of it. And so I 152 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:14.340 suggested - we suggested writing together the anthem of La République 153 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:16.940 des cartes. And I think that if you're here today, 154 00:11:16.940 --> 00:11:19.940 it's because you too have a bit of 155 00:11:19.940 --> 00:11:24.240 a wish to change the way you look at the world and to find other 156 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:28.140 tools. Is that something that interests you? Do you 157 00:11:28.140 --> 00:11:33.340 want to look at the world a little differently? Yes? Then if you do, 158 00:11:33.340 --> 00:11:36.240 make a bit of noise, let's see - do you want to 159 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:41.140 look at the world differently? I'm not sure, Sébastien, that they want to. 160 00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:47.140 Do you want to look at the world differently? Right. To look at the 161 00:11:47.140 --> 00:11:52.140 world differently, Sébastien used a word: cooperation. This 162 00:11:52.140 --> 00:11:54.740 song - I tried to write it, but I couldn't finish it. 163 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:59.140 I'm sorry, I'm going to need your cooperation. Doing things together 164 00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:04.780 is making a republic - that's one of La République des cartes' slogans. And so, 165 00:12:04.780 --> 00:12:07.380 to cooperate, one of the first things to do 166 00:12:07.380 --> 00:12:11.580 is to connect. And I need to know whether you're connected. 167 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:15.880 Let's see whether we can connect together for two or three minutes. 168 00:12:15.880 --> 00:12:21.580 Those of you who can, could you stand up? I'm going to suggest something 169 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:26.280 very, very simple: take your hands and we'll clap, 170 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:32.280 at whatever rhythm you like, as if you were applauding - but until 171 00:12:32.280 --> 00:12:34.180 you all reach the same rhythm. All right? 172 00:12:34.180 --> 00:12:37.480 It's very simple. Ready? One, two, three. 173 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:43.480 Ah! 174 00:12:45.880 --> 00:12:50.980 Very good. All that applause goes to IGN, to all the teams who 175 00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:53.680 organised this day, La République des cartes. 176 00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:59.080 So thank you - you're already in sync. 177 00:12:59.220 --> 00:13:04.620 That's not bad at all. They did that in three - in a few seconds. And 178 00:13:04.620 --> 00:13:09.520 you all know the letter A. Can you sound that letter out? If you hold it 179 00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:11.720 a little, and when you reach the end of your breath, 180 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:17.720 you take a breath and start it again. Never mind the pitch - 181 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.020 aaah, never mind. 182 00:13:20.020 --> 00:13:22.720 If you start on this note, it's the same. 183 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:27.420 You'll listen to each other to reach the same note. What will that give? Are 184 00:13:27.420 --> 00:13:29.720 you ready? Three, two, one. 185 00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:35.720 That's 186 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.920 not bad, is it? I think they're very much in sync. 187 00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:51.620 That's not bad at all. We'll do one last test - 188 00:13:51.620 --> 00:13:56.020 the ultra-hard one, level three. 189 00:13:56.020 --> 00:14:01.260 Ready? Here's what happens: I'm going to split the room in three, here, 190 00:14:01.260 --> 00:14:04.560 here and here, all right? And here it goes: 191 00:14:04.560 --> 00:14:09.960 pa-pa 192 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:15.760 pa-pa pa-pa pa-pa pa-pa pa-pa 193 00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:21.560 pa-pa pa-pa, hold it here, we'll go up a bit 194 00:14:21.560 --> 00:14:27.260 no, there, pa-pa pa-pa 195 00:14:27.260 --> 00:14:33.160 pa-pa, wonderful. And here, 196 00:14:33.160 --> 00:14:36.360 are you ready? One, two, three. 197 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.460 Right. No dancing. Pa-pa. 198 00:14:39.460 --> 00:14:41.360 And so we dance. 199 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:44.260 And so. 200 00:14:44.260 --> 00:14:47.960 We dance. And so. 201 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:53.460 We dance. And so we dance. Bravo! 202 00:14:55.860 --> 00:15:00.460 Are you a bit warmer than when you arrived? Make some noise! 203 00:15:00.460 --> 00:15:04.260 Ah, that's good, that's good. 204 00:15:04.260 --> 00:15:06.860 Right, you can sit back down. 205 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:10.560 Let me introduce my two fellow musicians. 206 00:15:10.560 --> 00:15:12.960 Thomas David on guitar, 207 00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:18.860 Raphaël T. 208 00:15:18.860 --> 00:15:24.560 on trumpet and drum pad. And 209 00:15:24.560 --> 00:15:29.860 together, without further ado - the idea that came to me is that we were talking 210 00:15:29.860 --> 00:15:34.060 about dialogue, and when we talked it over a little, 211 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:38.560 we said the map can serve as a dialogue. And so I thought: usually 212 00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:44.260 we travel thanks to maps, but we can also remake the world thanks 213 00:15:44.260 --> 00:15:48.760 to maps. So the song - the title of the song, which comes back in the 214 00:15:48.760 --> 00:15:52.160 chorus, is "Around the Map". And there, look, 215 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:54.360 that's it, that's the logo you were looking for. 216 00:15:55.800 --> 00:15:59.900 I think it's very beautiful. So the song is called "Around the Map". 217 00:15:59.900 --> 00:16:01.900 It's fairly simple. 218 00:16:01.900 --> 00:16:04.100 We're going to start with the chorus. 219 00:16:04.100 --> 00:16:06.300 I'll teach you the chorus. We'll sing it together. 220 00:16:06.300 --> 00:16:09.900 Can you give me something? 221 00:16:09.900 --> 00:16:15.900 It 222 00:16:16.100 --> 00:16:21.600 starts like this, it goes - are you ready? Around the map, 223 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.600 around the map. 224 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:29.300 Oh, turn the map over. 225 00:16:29.300 --> 00:16:33.100 Oh, it's simple, go on - around the map, 226 00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:37.100 the map, 227 00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:41.100 the map, 228 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:44.900 the map. 229 00:16:44.900 --> 00:16:50.300 Now it goes: we remake the world 230 00:16:50.300 --> 00:16:55.600 around the map, ideas abound around 231 00:16:55.740 --> 00:17:01.040 the map, imagination, the moment we look at it, grows more 232 00:17:01.040 --> 00:17:04.140 fertile around the map. Your turn. 233 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:09.440 We remake the world around the map, ideas abound 234 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:15.040 around the map, imagination, the moment we look at it, 235 00:17:15.040 --> 00:17:20.740 grows - once more, we remake the world. 236 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:21.340 Let's take it together. 237 00:17:21.340 --> 00:17:27.340 Much 238 00:17:31.540 --> 00:17:37.540 more fertile around the map. Right, the 239 00:17:37.540 --> 00:17:41.140 choir - what shall we call this choir? What could we 240 00:17:41.140 --> 00:17:47.140 call it? The choir of the Republic, the choir - the cartographic choir. 241 00:17:47.140 --> 00:17:49.340 The cartographic choir, that suits me. 242 00:17:49.340 --> 00:17:55.240 So that's the chorus, and it came fairly quickly. 243 00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:01.480 It flowed well. And then I wanted to try writing some 244 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:05.380 verses, and I struggled a bit. 245 00:18:05.380 --> 00:18:09.480 We'll have to fill in the gaps. 246 00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:15.480 Can you help me? Yes. I have done a bit of the 247 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:21.280 work already: we have a - how shall I put it - no, not yet. We 248 00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:26.380 already have a sound. So we're going to repeat. The idea is to say what our 249 00:18:26.380 --> 00:18:29.080 received ideas about the map are, and then what 250 00:18:29.080 --> 00:18:32.380 the map actually tells us. Sound-wise, we'll sing it together. 251 00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:37.480 That way we get it into our heads. It goes: "they tell me" la-la-la-la-la-la-la 252 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.780 la-la. Take it in. 253 00:18:41.780 --> 00:18:47.780 One, 254 00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:51.880 two, three. They tell me la-la-la-la-la-la 255 00:18:51.880 --> 00:18:54.880 la-la-la-la-la-la-la. 256 00:18:55.620 --> 00:18:59.420 La la la la la la la la la la. They tell me la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la 257 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:05.320 la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la, trying la-la-la-la-la. They tell 258 00:19:05.320 --> 00:19:10.720 me la-la-la-la-la-la-la-la la-la-la-la la-la-la-la la-la-la-la la-la-la-la 259 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:16.720 la-la-la-la la-la-la-la. They tell me la la la la la la la la la la la la 260 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.120 la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la. 261 00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:25.020 They tell me - right, it's simple, yes? 262 00:19:25.020 --> 00:19:29.220 You're a bit worried about what I'm going to ask you. In fact 263 00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:33.520 it's very simple. What I want to ask you is this: I have done a bit of 264 00:19:33.520 --> 00:19:36.420 work, and I'm going to - but on the other hand, 265 00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:41.120 I couldn't choose. So each time, I looked at a few maps that 266 00:19:41.120 --> 00:19:45.920 inspired a number of questions, discussions, dialogues, 267 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:50.220 and I wrote a few verses. But now I need your help to choose, 268 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:53.620 please. All right? It's very, very simple. For example, the first 269 00:19:53.620 --> 00:19:55.120 verse, and the first subject. 270 00:19:55.560 --> 00:20:01.460 It was a subject about the environment, so we found a map that asks 271 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:06.060 the question: what if all the glaciers melted? 272 00:20:06.060 --> 00:20:08.660 You may have seen this map somewhere around here. 273 00:20:08.660 --> 00:20:10.460 You can see the sea rising. 274 00:20:10.460 --> 00:20:16.160 All of that there is the land that has disappeared. And so 275 00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:22.160 the verse would be: they tell me that as the earth warms, the glaciers melt, 276 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:27.760 that there'll be war, that we'll all have to move. The map sketches out a 277 00:20:27.760 --> 00:20:33.460 future where lives are swallowed up - it's up to us to look ahead, take up the challenge. 278 00:20:33.460 --> 00:20:39.160 So that's the verse, the first verse. Or else we 279 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:43.960 found another map: what if all the trees really grew? 280 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.060 This is the France of free evolution. Here, 281 00:20:47.060 --> 00:20:51.860 we project ourselves into 2044 and assume that 50% of France 282 00:20:51.860 --> 00:20:56.400 is towns and cities, and that across the rest of France 283 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:02.400 we let nature grow and live. And so the verse would be: they tell 284 00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:07.900 me the land must be reinvented, but what to draw on when I know 285 00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:13.400 only one story? The map says: let's project ourselves towards imagined worlds, 286 00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:16.500 to reconcile the human and a thriving nature. 287 00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:21.000 So we have a choice between 288 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:26.300 verse A and verse B. And how are we going to choose? 289 00:21:26.300 --> 00:21:31.600 We'll make some noise. So, are you ready to make some noise for A, 290 00:21:31.600 --> 00:21:35.200 if that's the one you want in your song, in the anthem? 291 00:21:35.200 --> 00:21:36.800 Verse A - make some noise! 292 00:21:36.800 --> 00:21:42.800 So 293 00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:49.000 we have two or three highly motivated people. And for verse B, make some 294 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:55.000 noise. That balances out three very motivated people and 295 00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:58.740 one roughly motivated one. It still gives - make some noise again for B. 296 00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:01.740 B it is, then. 297 00:22:01.740 --> 00:22:04.240 Well played. Right, are you ready for what's next? 298 00:22:04.240 --> 00:22:06.440 We still have three to write. The next one. 299 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:09.840 We're talking about society: hospital emergency departments. 300 00:22:09.840 --> 00:22:15.140 This shows all the places where you can reach an A&E within 30 minutes of the 301 00:22:15.140 --> 00:22:19.840 central point. And so the idea is: they tell me every emergency department 302 00:22:19.840 --> 00:22:24.140 is under pressure, that the medical desert is spreading, that there's no solution. 303 00:22:24.140 --> 00:22:30.040 The map says: let's look together at the vulnerable areas and rethink what 304 00:22:30.040 --> 00:22:31.840 a sustainable health service is. 305 00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:35.840 So that's the first subject about society, and the second one - 306 00:22:35.840 --> 00:22:39.440 you can't see it very well, but it's the one I mentioned, the gender of street names. 307 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:41.940 This is the map of Lyon. You find the same thing on the map of Paris: 308 00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:47.940 there are about 150 streets in pink here that bear the 309 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:50.140 names of women. 310 00:22:50.140 --> 00:22:55.040 Now, the idea of the song isn't to say whether that's good or bad. 311 00:22:55.380 --> 00:22:59.680 It's that the map is a little like our memory, and that beyond posturing, 312 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:05.280 the map can serve as a way to talk, to build our history from 313 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:10.880 now on. And so it goes: they tell me, where are the women on the street signs? 314 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:16.580 Should we change the names, replace the statues? The map says public space 315 00:23:16.580 --> 00:23:21.780 is our memory - let's leave the posturing and reinvent our history. 316 00:23:21.780 --> 00:23:27.480 So which speaks to you most? Is it A - 317 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:32.380 make some noise - the emergency departments? Or is it 318 00:23:32.380 --> 00:23:38.080 B, the gender of street names? Make some noise. All right, all right. 319 00:23:38.080 --> 00:23:42.880 The song is writing itself. We're almost at something like unanimity - 320 00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.580 at any rate a large majority. So we have the first two verses. 321 00:23:45.580 --> 00:23:48.680 Shall we go on? No - 322 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:53.080 we go on. 323 00:23:55.320 --> 00:24:01.120 Cuisine by neighbourhood: everything in red there 324 00:24:01.120 --> 00:24:04.920 is French cuisine, which was fairly - which was quite 325 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:10.920 surprising. And so it goes: they tell me you eat better in the centre of Paris, 326 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.620 that burgers have replaced Granny's blanquette. 327 00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:19.920 The map says Paris is still full of little cafés, and that diversity 328 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.920 has enriched our neighbourhoods. 329 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.620 So that's the first map. On the second map of Paris, 330 00:24:26.620 --> 00:24:28.120 it's cyclists' journeys. 331 00:24:28.120 --> 00:24:32.320 It's quite surprising to see how it's changed. Broadly, that's 332 00:24:32.320 --> 00:24:36.520 more than 50,000 cycle journeys. And so the idea is: 333 00:24:36.520 --> 00:24:40.420 they tell me all the cycle lanes are empty, 334 00:24:40.420 --> 00:24:46.320 that you can't go out in Paris any more with our motors. The map says: look how 335 00:24:46.320 --> 00:24:51.120 new ways of getting around have been invented in Paris and beyond. 336 00:24:51.120 --> 00:24:54.520 Right, so if you vote for A, 337 00:24:55.260 --> 00:25:00.060 make some noise - if it's Granny's blanquette that appeals 338 00:25:00.060 --> 00:25:03.160 and for B, the cycle lanes, make some noise. 339 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.860 Ah, it's the cycle lanes. 340 00:25:06.860 --> 00:25:12.860 Ah, I don't know, I can't quite tell. Let's do it again: for the cuisine, 341 00:25:12.860 --> 00:25:18.360 make some noise; and for the cycle lanes, make some noise. 342 00:25:18.360 --> 00:25:24.260 The cycle lanes win. So, 343 00:25:24.260 --> 00:25:29.060 verse four. I'm going a bit fast because of the timing. Changing the way 344 00:25:29.060 --> 00:25:35.060 we look: the world seen by fish looks like this. It goes: they tell me we must look 345 00:25:35.060 --> 00:25:40.960 after the ocean, even though not many of us live in it. The map says 346 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:45.460 it's the ocean that is bordered by land - to help life, 347 00:25:45.460 --> 00:25:50.360 we must take care of our seas. And if we look at the world from the point 348 00:25:50.360 --> 00:25:55.060 of view - on the next slide - of protected 349 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.700 areas, which is really surprising: you can see them very clearly. 350 00:25:57.700 --> 00:26:03.400 There are in fact a great many protected areas in France. 351 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:08.400 And they tell me humans don't know how to care for the living, 352 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:14.000 that they burn the forests and destroy the oceans. The map says: true, but 353 00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:18.900 they aren't so bad - look at all the places they have protected. 354 00:26:18.900 --> 00:26:24.200 So if you prefer the world seen by fish, make some noise; 355 00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:28.700 and for the protected areas, make some noise. 356 00:26:28.700 --> 00:26:34.700 Wonderful. Right, you can give yourselves a very, very big 357 00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:38.500 hand. We've written another song together, 358 00:26:38.500 --> 00:26:42.200 and in a minute we'll be able to sing it together. 359 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:45.700 I'm just going to teach you a bridge. It'll be very, very simple too. 360 00:26:45.700 --> 00:26:49.400 It goes - I'll split the room in two at that point, 361 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:50.900 you'll see, in the song it goes: 362 00:26:55.140 --> 00:27:01.140 And 363 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:09.340 doing things together 364 00:27:09.340 --> 00:27:13.340 is making a republic, 365 00:27:13.340 --> 00:27:18.740 making it so is 366 00:27:18.740 --> 00:27:23.940 making a republic, doing things together 367 00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:28.240 and making a republic. 368 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:32.440 Are you ready to sing the song together? 369 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:37.940 No, you're not ready. Careful. 370 00:27:37.940 --> 00:27:43.940 So we're going to bring in Matthieu - he's over on your side, then. 371 00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:45.240 We have Matthieu. 372 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:49.340 Let's make a fine noise for Matthieu, who prepared the song for us 373 00:27:49.340 --> 00:27:54.940 live. Make some noise for Matthieu. The song is called "Around 374 00:27:55.080 --> 00:27:59.080 the Map", and we're going to sing it together whenever you like. 375 00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:04.880 We remake the world 376 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:10.680 around the map, ideas abound around the map, 377 00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:16.280 imagination, the moment we look at it, grows more fertile 378 00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:18.280 around the map. 379 00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:23.680 Are you ready? 380 00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:29.280 They tell me the land must be reinvented 381 00:28:29.280 --> 00:28:35.180 and what to draw on when I know no more stories? The map says: let's 382 00:28:35.180 --> 00:28:38.280 build imagined worlds, to reconcile 383 00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:40.280 the human and a thriving nature. 384 00:28:40.280 --> 00:28:45.780 They tell me we're not on the street signs - should we change the names 385 00:28:45.780 --> 00:28:51.380 and replace the statues? The map says public space is our memory: 386 00:28:51.380 --> 00:28:56.820 let's leave the posturing behind. We remake the world 387 00:28:56.820 --> 00:29:02.820 around the map, imagination around the map, 388 00:29:02.820 --> 00:29:07.720 and the moment we look at it, it grows 389 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:13.720 more fertile. Can you sing it properly? Go on, 390 00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:19.520 hold it a long time. They tell me all the cycle 391 00:29:19.520 --> 00:29:25.320 lanes are empty, that you can't go out in Paris with our old relics. The map says: 392 00:29:25.320 --> 00:29:30.820 look how new ways of getting around have been invented in Paris 393 00:29:30.820 --> 00:29:36.720 and beyond. They tell me we must look after the ocean, even though not many 394 00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:40.220 of us live in it. The map says 395 00:29:40.220 --> 00:29:44.720 it's the ocean that is bordered by land - to help life, 396 00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.720 we must take care of our seas. 397 00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:52.320 Come on - we remake the world around the map, ideas abound 398 00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:54.220 around the map. 399 00:29:54.960 --> 00:30:00.860 The moment we look at it, it grows more fertile around 400 00:30:00.860 --> 00:30:05.260 the map. Are you ready? Here, we'll do this. 401 00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:11.260 Watch 402 00:30:19.560 --> 00:30:23.660 closely, all right? And doing things together - 403 00:30:23.660 --> 00:30:29.560 doing things together 404 00:30:29.560 --> 00:30:34.560 is making a republic, doing things together 405 00:30:34.560 --> 00:30:39.160 is making a republic. 406 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:42.560 Louder! 407 00:30:42.560 --> 00:30:46.660 I can hear you - making a republic, 408 00:30:46.660 --> 00:30:52.660 doing things together is 409 00:30:52.660 --> 00:30:54.160 making people dream. 410 00:30:54.900 --> 00:31:00.900 If 411 00:31:45.600 --> 00:31:51.400 you're ready - one, two, three. And we 412 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:54.300 remake the world, turn the map over. 413 00:31:54.840 --> 00:32:00.540 And around the map, imagination, the moment 414 00:32:00.540 --> 00:32:05.440 we look at it, grows more fertile around the map, 415 00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.840 around the map, 416 00:32:08.840 --> 00:32:12.540 around the map, 417 00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:16.340 the map, 418 00:32:16.340 --> 00:32:20.140 the map. 419 00:32:20.140 --> 00:32:26.140 Bravo! 420 00:32:26.140 --> 00:32:30.740 Well done - you have composed the anthem of La République des cartes. 421 00:32:30.740 --> 00:32:32.040 Thank you for your help. 422 00:32:32.040 --> 00:32:34.940 Thank you very much. 423 00:32:34.940 --> 00:32:37.240 Bravo. 424 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.040 Bravo Stéphane Gabet, bravo Raphaël and Thomas. 425 00:32:40.040 --> 00:32:44.340 Thank you very much. It isn't going to be easy to follow that. In any case, 426 00:32:44.340 --> 00:32:47.540 I saw some of you dancing at the back - thank you for that. 427 00:32:47.540 --> 00:32:52.240 Thank you so much. Right, we're going straight to a quick look back at the 428 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.340 regions. As I said earlier, we have more than 429 00:32:54.780 --> 00:32:58.480 115 points lit up on this Map Day. Sadly we can't 430 00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:01.680 give the floor to everyone running a project, 431 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.180 so we made a small, subjective selection with the team. And we'll 432 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:09.680 start straight away with a link to a Twitch channel: 433 00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:14.680 we're lucky that Loïc Leroy, alias Le Roi Louis, something of a sovereign of the game 434 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:19.480 Minecraft, is inviting us live onto his Twitch channel. 435 00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:23.580 I don't know where we are in the control room, but I'm counting on you to connect us, 436 00:33:23.580 --> 00:33:28.180 so that in a few words Le Roi Louis, a pillar of the gaming festivals, 437 00:33:28.180 --> 00:33:31.680 can tell us about his own Map Day. 438 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:35.080 Hello? Hello? 439 00:33:54.720 --> 00:34:00.420 All right, so 440 00:34:00.420 --> 00:34:05.620 on the conference side, they're joining us, which is good. And we have 441 00:34:05.620 --> 00:34:11.120 young people - hold on, yes, because right now there's a big conference 442 00:34:11.120 --> 00:34:16.420 at IGN with, I think, around 150 guests and so on, 443 00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:19.320 and they're going to broadcast live. 444 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.020 They may not be used to live streams. 445 00:34:22.020 --> 00:34:25.920 It'll be fun, all right. 446 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:31.920 So we were talking at one point about Minecraft à la carte, and about progress 447 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:36.220 on version 2. For now, in any case, we haven't got a release date; it's still 448 00:34:36.220 --> 00:34:41.120 in development, and it'll come out when it comes out. If you have ideas 449 00:34:41.120 --> 00:34:45.420 about it, we're on a 450 00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:50.220 European project, and we can't develop everything at once. 451 00:34:50.220 --> 00:34:52.520 For now we haven't much to show. 452 00:34:52.520 --> 00:34:56.960 One thing is that this summer we're also running an event 453 00:34:56.960 --> 00:35:02.360 at the school that was attached to - it's just changed 454 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:07.660 its name, very recently. And in that context 455 00:35:07.660 --> 00:35:11.860 we'll also do a presentation. I hope it will already be well 456 00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:17.560 along by then, and that we can at least start releasing the 457 00:35:17.560 --> 00:35:23.560 generator. So at first the generator will be 458 00:35:23.560 --> 00:35:26.960 available, and then we'll see about the services, because that made for an app 459 00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:29.160 that was rather nice. And besides, we haven't mentioned it, 460 00:35:29.160 --> 00:35:31.060 but a few years ago 461 00:35:31.060 --> 00:35:34.560 the ministry for ecological transition - 462 00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:38.160 I don't know whether you remember - they launched a big national competition 463 00:35:38.160 --> 00:35:44.160 in schools, where the idea was for people to think about their 464 00:35:44.160 --> 00:35:48.460 town or village in the future, and what they would want to see appear there. 465 00:35:48.460 --> 00:35:51.960 And I remember it because they'd asked me to chair the jury at the 466 00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.060 time. It was right at the end of the run 467 00:35:54.600 --> 00:36:00.500 of ministers - I was at a ministry that was winding down at the end. 468 00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:03.600 And there were quite a lot 469 00:36:03.600 --> 00:36:09.600 for 470 00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:14.700 the making-of, for everyone. So it's a Twitch channel - has anyone here already 471 00:36:14.700 --> 00:36:18.400 seen a Twitch channel? Has anyone in the audience never connected to a Twitch 472 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:23.600 channel? Right. So the principle 473 00:36:23.600 --> 00:36:28.100 is roughly like YouTube, except that it's live video. And here you're 474 00:36:28.100 --> 00:36:33.600 in a community - Le Roi Louis', who is from the Paris region 475 00:36:33.600 --> 00:36:39.300 and uses the game Minecraft, so, Lego and Minetest, 476 00:36:39.300 --> 00:36:45.200 sorry. And we have François, perhaps, who can just comment on what's on screen 477 00:36:45.200 --> 00:36:48.400 for a minute, if he would. 478 00:36:48.400 --> 00:36:54.400 Yes, hello. So, 479 00:36:54.540 --> 00:36:59.240 what you're seeing live is the YouTuber Wally, who is demonstrating 480 00:36:59.240 --> 00:37:03.340 our service Minecraft à la carte, which generates maps 481 00:37:03.340 --> 00:37:08.340 in Minecraft format, or in the free format Minetest, in which you find 482 00:37:08.340 --> 00:37:12.940 all of IGN's data, or OSM's, for the whole world - everything 483 00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:17.740 we hold in our databases: the relief, the roads, the buildings, the hydrography. 484 00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:23.340 All of it turns up in the game, and children can discover geography in 485 00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:28.340 3D, alter it, imagine the future directly inside the game. 486 00:37:28.340 --> 00:37:34.340 So here he's walking around. Le Roi Louis had rebuilt the cathedral, or 487 00:37:34.340 --> 00:37:37.540 brought it back into the game, and all the rest - the data, for instance the 488 00:37:37.540 --> 00:37:41.540 trees, comes straight from IGN's data, which we put into the 489 00:37:41.540 --> 00:37:46.640 game. In this new version there'll be very, very realistic trees. And the 490 00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:50.240 service is for the general public. We'll see. Thank you very much. 491 00:37:50.240 --> 00:37:53.140 Thank you for that. We're having small connection problems for 492 00:37:53.140 --> 00:37:54.340 interacting, but indeed. 493 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:59.380 We're live, and this time we'll move to people who are online. 494 00:37:59.380 --> 00:38:05.180 Matthieu, first of all Chloé Cosmidis, who is a geomatician and cartographer 495 00:38:05.180 --> 00:38:09.280 and who, from Brittany, runs a community venue. In a few words, 496 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:12.580 she'll tell us about what she did today for Map Day, which was 497 00:38:12.580 --> 00:38:13.780 aimed at every kind of audience. 498 00:38:13.780 --> 00:38:17.780 Good evening. 499 00:38:17.780 --> 00:38:22.780 Good evening Chloé, you're live with us. 500 00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:27.580 Thank you very much for being here. In a few words, can you tell us which 501 00:38:27.580 --> 00:38:31.880 area you're working in, and describe what took place today? And 502 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:36.380 I can see you have artworks and maps behind you. Absolutely. 503 00:38:36.380 --> 00:38:42.380 Can you hear me? Very well? Wonderful. Good evening everyone. 504 00:38:42.380 --> 00:38:47.980 This evening you're seeing me from Lézardrieux, in a space called the 505 00:38:47.980 --> 00:38:53.880 LézarTiko, a community venue whose aim is to provide shared 506 00:38:53.880 --> 00:38:59.620 workspaces. So it's a coworking space that regularly puts on 507 00:38:59.620 --> 00:39:03.320 exhibitions, because its purpose was also to create social ties. 508 00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:09.320 And so we ran a workshop on Map Day - 509 00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:13.320 The Maps We Need, sorry - for today, and we also hung up 510 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:17.120 the maps you can see behind me, 511 00:39:17.120 --> 00:39:20.920 We're in a meeting room, but we also have a slightly larger space on 512 00:39:20.920 --> 00:39:25.420 the other side, where the exhibition is being opened. And what made you 513 00:39:25.420 --> 00:39:30.020 want to take part in La République des cartes? 514 00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:35.420 Personally, I qualified in geomatics only recently, in 515 00:39:35.420 --> 00:39:41.120 December. So when I saw the initiative I was very keen, and I suggested it 516 00:39:41.120 --> 00:39:46.520 to this coworking space. And among the members of the association 517 00:39:46.520 --> 00:39:50.620 we have other cartographers - beside me here is 518 00:39:50.620 --> 00:39:54.020 Isabelle Delacourte, who is also a member 519 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:59.360 and a user of this space. And we also have consultancies that 520 00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:01.260 use cartography in their work. 521 00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:06.060 So when the idea came up, we were all very enthusiastic about 522 00:40:06.060 --> 00:40:09.660 putting on this exhibition and this workshop. A last word about the public: 523 00:40:09.660 --> 00:40:14.960 how did they react, how did it go? Well, we were pleasantly 524 00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:17.160 surprised. Isabelle, if you'd like to say a word. Yes, 525 00:40:17.160 --> 00:40:22.160 we had about twenty people, from seven to seventy-seven, roughly. 526 00:40:22.160 --> 00:40:26.860 We're in a rural area, in the north of the Côtes-d'Armor. 527 00:40:26.860 --> 00:40:32.660 And there really was a lot of participation, 528 00:40:32.660 --> 00:40:34.460 a lot of enthusiasm in the exchanges. 529 00:40:34.460 --> 00:40:40.060 There we are. It was terrific, with viewpoints crossing, and 530 00:40:40.060 --> 00:40:45.260 at one point - I think the participants got a lot out of 531 00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:49.960 this workshop. Yes, we perhaps just wanted to take part longer. 532 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:52.160 Some even told us it was a shame. 533 00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:53.860 There we are, we 534 00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.000 could have dug into the subjects a bit deeper. Thank you. 535 00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.500 Thank you very much for that. 536 00:40:58.500 --> 00:41:01.900 Thank you for your initiative. Let's change region. 537 00:41:01.900 --> 00:41:05.900 We're off to Savoie, and I'll hand over to Brice Galles, who is 538 00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:10.300 director of information systems at the Savoie Mont-Blanc data management authority. 539 00:41:10.300 --> 00:41:12.700 No. 540 00:41:12.700 --> 00:41:16.800 Ah no, apparently not - he isn't there. Never mind, 541 00:41:16.800 --> 00:41:19.000 we're playing tricks on the data authority. 542 00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:21.400 We can't interact with Twitch. We haven't got Mont Blanc. 543 00:41:21.400 --> 00:41:24.500 In any case there was an important initiative that took place 544 00:41:24.500 --> 00:41:28.300 during the day. So we have two videos recorded as feedback 545 00:41:28.300 --> 00:41:30.300 that we're going to show you. 546 00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:33.200 I hope they're there. The first is a video by an artist 547 00:41:33.200 --> 00:41:38.500 in Marseille called Jeanne Varaldi. She describes herself as an artist who runs 548 00:41:38.500 --> 00:41:43.500 topobiographical workshops, and she has this lovely phrase: that 549 00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:48.100 art gives her tools for talking with space as it is perceived and lived. So, 550 00:41:48.100 --> 00:41:49.600 a short video from Jeanne Varaldi. 551 00:41:54.240 --> 00:41:59.040 Hello, this is Jeanne Varaldi, artist and urbanist, and Ronan Delacroix, exhibition 552 00:41:59.040 --> 00:42:03.140 curator. We're in Marseille for Map Day, and we're presenting 553 00:42:03.140 --> 00:42:08.240 the exhibition Topobiographie. It's about the ties that bind us to a place. 554 00:42:08.240 --> 00:42:12.640 Here we have embroidered maps I made in collaboration with a foundation in 555 00:42:12.640 --> 00:42:17.340 India, telling stories of temples, of mangroves, and all the anecdotes 556 00:42:17.340 --> 00:42:18.940 attached to those life stories. 557 00:42:18.940 --> 00:42:24.040 We also have sculpted steel plans of places drawn from my own 558 00:42:24.040 --> 00:42:28.340 history. There are little openwork houses, and I like the idea that a plan 559 00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:32.740 is also another way of inhabiting space - that we can be wrapped in 560 00:42:32.740 --> 00:42:37.240 the map, that we can look at the map in a more poetic, artistic way. 561 00:42:37.240 --> 00:42:39.140 Marseille is no accident. 562 00:42:39.140 --> 00:42:43.940 Marseille is an immense city, and a plural one. Here at Topobiographie 563 00:42:43.940 --> 00:42:49.340 there is an exhibition, but there's also a topobiographical workshop where we invite 564 00:42:49.340 --> 00:42:54.040 people from Marseille, people supported by associations, to drift - 565 00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:59.180 and professionals, to make their own maps. Come with me. The 566 00:42:59.180 --> 00:43:04.080 triangles are houses, so, my parents' place, my grandmother's. The 567 00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:09.480 circles are more like trees, so, origins. 568 00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:14.080 I see them a bit like roots, so the Cantal is an enormous tree. 569 00:43:14.080 --> 00:43:16.180 And there's the magic tree, too. 570 00:43:16.180 --> 00:43:21.380 We go up to my grandmother's. And how does it feel, doing this topobiography? 571 00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:25.280 It's great fun, and it's beautiful. 572 00:43:28.080 --> 00:43:31.880 Thank you. We have one last video. 573 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:35.680 Here we zoom out and head for cold lands: seven days' crossing 574 00:43:35.680 --> 00:43:40.180 from Tasmania, ten days on site, five to eight days' crossing back depending on 575 00:43:40.180 --> 00:43:42.880 the thickness of the ice, and a presence 576 00:43:42.880 --> 00:43:46.280 linked, I quote, to the study of sea level and of terrestrial positioning. 577 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:50.480 So this is Thomas Donald, a surveyor at IGN, speaking to us from 578 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:51.380 Antarctica. 579 00:43:51.380 --> 00:43:57.080 Hello everyone. 580 00:43:57.080 --> 00:44:02.980 A quick hello from Antarctica, a challenging land for the map. 581 00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:08.980 Here it's white and endless. I'm 582 00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:14.580 here to maintain space geodesy instruments, such as 583 00:44:14.580 --> 00:44:19.980 this satellite positioning antenna I'm showing you. 584 00:44:19.980 --> 00:44:25.680 This antenna works within a network, a global infrastructure 585 00:44:25.680 --> 00:44:27.880 that improves 586 00:44:28.020 --> 00:44:33.620 terrestrial positioning, and so, in the end, the accuracy of our 587 00:44:33.620 --> 00:44:35.520 cartographic representations. 588 00:44:35.520 --> 00:44:40.620 That was all - just to say a quick hello, and to say 589 00:44:40.620 --> 00:44:45.220 that a map really is both an instrument that lets us 590 00:44:45.220 --> 00:44:51.120 position ourselves on the earth and one that lets us travel the globe. 591 00:44:51.120 --> 00:44:55.720 Have a good closing evening for Map Day. 592 00:44:55.720 --> 00:44:56.920 Love from Antarctica. 593 00:44:56.920 --> 00:45:00.920 There we are - a short journey around the regions. 594 00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.320 Obviously we couldn't be exhaustive, but it gives you 595 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:09.620 some idea of the variety of the projects we received and of the 596 00:45:09.620 --> 00:45:10.920 points lit up on the map. 597 00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:16.120 We now have the great pleasure of welcoming Frédéric Gilli, who is here, 598 00:45:16.120 --> 00:45:20.420 a French economist specialising in urban questions and in geography, 599 00:45:20.420 --> 00:45:23.120 and also a specialist in questions of democracy, notably participatory 600 00:45:23.120 --> 00:45:27.220 democracy. If I'm not mistaken, you're also an associate professor at the 601 00:45:27.220 --> 00:45:32.660 Sciences Po Urban School, and co-founder of the journal Métropolitiques. 602 00:45:32.660 --> 00:45:37.060 We're lucky to have this key witness with us this evening to talk about 603 00:45:37.060 --> 00:45:38.260 maps and democracy. 604 00:45:38.260 --> 00:45:40.060 Thank you. 605 00:45:40.060 --> 00:45:41.860 Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. 606 00:45:41.860 --> 00:45:47.860 Good evening everyone. I'll try to manage the clicker and the 607 00:45:47.860 --> 00:45:50.960 papers. Hello. 608 00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:56.960 Hello everyone. When I was little, the first 609 00:45:56.960 --> 00:46:01.660 maps we saw - because I look old now, so we can say it - 610 00:46:01.660 --> 00:46:03.860 when I was little, the first maps we saw 611 00:46:03.860 --> 00:46:09.760 were the famous Vidal de La Blache maps that hung on the 612 00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:15.460 slate blackboard and showed human activities, quite apart from 613 00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:18.760 history. They showed agriculture, 614 00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.260 they showed industry. 615 00:46:20.260 --> 00:46:25.260 Now today - I've been able to experience this with my children - 616 00:46:25.260 --> 00:46:26.960 it isn't that at all. 617 00:46:27.900 --> 00:46:32.800 The first maps we come into contact with are broadly 618 00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:38.200 world maps or the map of the French départements. In both cases, 619 00:46:38.200 --> 00:46:44.000 they're blocks of flat colour enclosed within administrative boundaries, 620 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:49.600 a layout of borders, blocks of colour marking out administrative 621 00:46:49.600 --> 00:46:55.400 belonging. In fact, depending on how we represent our entry into and our 622 00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:00.600 closeness to the world, that produces very different political relationships 623 00:47:00.600 --> 00:47:06.400 from the earliest age - in the way we place ourselves, and 624 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:11.300 in the way we tell ourselves how we might have power or a grip 625 00:47:11.300 --> 00:47:14.200 on this world. Maps are political. 626 00:47:14.200 --> 00:47:18.900 They already inscribe our belonging and our grasp of the world within a 627 00:47:18.900 --> 00:47:23.200 very precise frame - in this case, the one we place ourselves in today and 628 00:47:23.200 --> 00:47:25.200 the one in which we inscribe our children's representations. 629 00:47:25.200 --> 00:47:27.500 It's broadly that 630 00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:33.440 of the nation-state, where inside those famous borders there is 631 00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:38.840 a people - always within those borders - and, within the frame of those borders, 632 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:43.840 a power that can be exercised. So it's a certain conception 633 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:48.640 of power, of the people, of democracy. And where I'm heading is this: 634 00:47:48.640 --> 00:47:54.040 the map isn't just there for picturing yourself, 635 00:47:54.040 --> 00:47:59.240 for placing yourself in space. It serves at least as much, if not more, 636 00:47:59.240 --> 00:48:03.440 to share, to give, to set up landmarks - 637 00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:09.140 landmarks that make individual action and collective action possible. 638 00:48:09.140 --> 00:48:14.640 And it gives us an idea of the frames within which we can act. And so, 639 00:48:14.640 --> 00:48:15.640 if 640 00:48:15.640 --> 00:48:21.640 in 641 00:48:22.340 --> 00:48:27.640 fact - I'd better be brief. This question of landmarks 642 00:48:27.780 --> 00:48:30.880 is today at the heart of the question of democratic peril. 643 00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:36.380 It's exactly what Pierre Rosanvallon - I imagine 644 00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:39.480 you've all heard of him, a specialist in questions of democracy - 645 00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:43.880 means when he speaks of democratic peril and of the problem of representation we 646 00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:47.280 face. Thank you very much. When he speaks of the problem of representation we 647 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:53.280 face, it's less a problem of our national representatives, of MPs and 648 00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:57.880 senators, than a problem of the misrepresentation of the world, and of our 649 00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:03.280 inability to picture and to share a collective vision of the world, and so 650 00:49:03.280 --> 00:49:09.280 of action. And so that's explicitly a challenge 651 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:14.980 for maps: how can we, or can't we, better represent 652 00:49:14.980 --> 00:49:19.380 this world? And how, when we represent the world, do we carry a 653 00:49:19.380 --> 00:49:20.980 certain vision of the world with us? 654 00:49:20.980 --> 00:49:26.680 Now obviously it doesn't work if - 655 00:49:27.720 --> 00:49:32.320 This relationship between map and vision of the world isn't new. 656 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:38.120 We did see it expressed fairly brutally 657 00:49:38.120 --> 00:49:43.820 on 1 January, since the first thing talked about across the planet 658 00:49:43.820 --> 00:49:49.720 on 1 January was a map - a map, a fairly simplistic map, of 659 00:49:49.720 --> 00:49:55.120 Greenland, posted by the wife of one of Donald Trump's advisers. 660 00:49:55.120 --> 00:50:00.520 But it says rather well how, from 661 00:50:00.520 --> 00:50:04.220 the Christian Middle Ages to today, 662 00:50:04.220 --> 00:50:10.220 maps are used to carry visions of the world and to 663 00:50:10.220 --> 00:50:11.420 smuggle visions of the world in. 664 00:50:11.420 --> 00:50:17.320 Maps are also the subject of 665 00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:21.420 discussion about the representations they carry. There, 666 00:50:21.420 --> 00:50:23.320 for some years now, 667 00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:28.960 there has been the debate raised notably by African countries about what 668 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:34.960 the Mercator projection carries as a representation of Africa's domination. 669 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:40.760 On the right you have the map that was officially adopted by the 670 00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:43.960 Chinese government, which puts China at the centre - 671 00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:47.560 and not at all on a horizontal map, but on a vertical one. 672 00:50:47.560 --> 00:50:53.460 You might think that behind these questions 673 00:50:53.460 --> 00:50:58.660 the democratic question is secondary. In reality, 674 00:50:58.660 --> 00:51:04.060 we have an explicitly democratic question here, because perhaps 675 00:51:04.060 --> 00:51:08.460 it's African dictatorships complaining about Mercator, perhaps it's 676 00:51:08.460 --> 00:51:13.660 a Chinese dictatorship putting China at the centre. But what we really see 677 00:51:13.660 --> 00:51:16.860 between these two maps is the question of the democratisation of the planet. 678 00:51:16.860 --> 00:51:22.160 It's people who live outside the West and who are claiming 679 00:51:22.160 --> 00:51:26.860 a capacity to weigh on a different vision of the world. So in fact 680 00:51:27.600 --> 00:51:32.200 these maps are the sign of a democratisation of the planet at the same 681 00:51:32.200 --> 00:51:37.800 time as they are its vehicle. This relationship 682 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:43.200 of the map to democratisation, more than to democracy, 683 00:51:43.200 --> 00:51:48.900 is illustrated quite clearly by travel maps. 684 00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:54.600 Until the middle of the nineteenth century, the map 685 00:51:54.600 --> 00:51:56.500 was a matter for soldiers and merchants, 686 00:51:56.500 --> 00:52:02.500 not a matter for us. At the beginning of the twentieth 687 00:52:02.500 --> 00:52:06.800 century it starts to be a matter for the middle classes, and gradually 688 00:52:06.800 --> 00:52:12.500 it becomes everyone's business. The map as an object, 689 00:52:12.500 --> 00:52:18.300 its spread, is one of the signs 690 00:52:18.300 --> 00:52:22.900 of the democratisation of something that is fundamental to our 691 00:52:22.900 --> 00:52:26.500 being: freedom of movement. 692 00:52:27.540 --> 00:52:33.440 Which is fundamental to the movement of people. So broadly, before even 693 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:37.240 being - and we'll come to this - an object of democratic debate, 694 00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:42.740 the map is a sign of the democratisation of our societies. 695 00:52:42.740 --> 00:52:48.440 And the problem is that we see it with 696 00:52:48.440 --> 00:52:54.040 Waze, which brings this story of the map of 697 00:52:54.040 --> 00:52:56.740 movement and travel to a close. Behind every map 698 00:52:56.740 --> 00:53:01.240 there is an infrastructure for producing the map and the data. And 699 00:53:01.240 --> 00:53:07.240 these here are estimates of market share, represented by - 700 00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:13.240 sorry, of revenue generated by the digital map market. 701 00:53:13.240 --> 00:53:18.440 These estimates are worth what they're worth, but when you have - 702 00:53:18.440 --> 00:53:23.240 broadly, what we look at when we look at - I imagine you've done 703 00:53:23.240 --> 00:53:26.340 this work far more seriously than these figures I 704 00:53:26.340 --> 00:53:29.980 gathered. But broadly, every indicator I found converges 705 00:53:29.980 --> 00:53:34.480 on the fact that we have a market stabilising at several hundred 706 00:53:34.480 --> 00:53:40.380 billion in market share, and one billion to one and a half billion for 707 00:53:40.380 --> 00:53:44.580 France. And that the market is exploding - broadly, a tripling of 708 00:53:44.580 --> 00:53:48.780 market share over the next fifteen years. That's a stake, but 709 00:53:48.780 --> 00:53:54.180 it isn't just an economic and financial one. Obviously, we saw it at the 710 00:53:54.180 --> 00:53:56.680 time of Ukraine, with Starlink. 711 00:53:56.680 --> 00:54:01.880 We see it daily today, with the debates we're having 712 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:04.280 about relations between France, 713 00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:10.080 Europe and the United States. It's a question of sovereign control over our 714 00:54:10.080 --> 00:54:15.880 own, over our own capacity to 715 00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.780 have a representation tool of our own. 716 00:54:20.780 --> 00:54:26.080 So at this stage, 717 00:54:27.420 --> 00:54:31.220 we can say that maps and democracy are, 718 00:54:31.220 --> 00:54:36.620 on the one hand, a matter of infrastructure 719 00:54:36.620 --> 00:54:41.820 for democracy and, on the other, a sign of democratisation. 720 00:54:41.820 --> 00:54:46.120 The second point I want to come back to in this context is that, 721 00:54:46.120 --> 00:54:52.020 unlike every single other tool of 722 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:57.020 our democratic debate, where discourse is central to the debate - 723 00:54:57.020 --> 00:55:01.420 democratic debate is an exchange of ideas, 724 00:55:01.420 --> 00:55:05.920 it's demonstrations, it's logical and hypothetical, codified argument - 725 00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:08.720 the map does nothing of the sort. The map, 726 00:55:08.720 --> 00:55:10.620 the map does not demonstrate. 727 00:55:10.620 --> 00:55:14.220 It shows. And so when it bursts into the debate, 728 00:55:14.220 --> 00:55:18.420 it does so in a way completely orthogonal to how 729 00:55:18.420 --> 00:55:22.320 democratic debate has been organised and structured from the start, for the 730 00:55:22.320 --> 00:55:27.320 150 or 200 years we've been debating and arguing in our forums. 731 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:33.360 And that completely disrupts the way we relate to 732 00:55:33.360 --> 00:55:35.760 the truth as it's handed to us. That is to say, 733 00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:40.960 it isn't a demonstration, it's a proof - a bit like Colin Powell 734 00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.260 showing the evidence for the presence of anthrax: 735 00:55:43.260 --> 00:55:44.760 there are photographs, there is anthrax. 736 00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:50.460 I have a map, therefore I have a truth. That's paradoxical in itself, because you 737 00:55:50.460 --> 00:55:53.060 might think that, since it's a drawing, 738 00:55:53.060 --> 00:55:58.760 it's easy to manipulate. But in fact people are far more suspicious of the 739 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:04.060 figures that underpin the map than of maps themselves. And so 740 00:56:04.060 --> 00:56:09.860 that has two consequences. The first is that it's obviously far easier 741 00:56:09.860 --> 00:56:15.860 to manipulate, since there's less suspicion. The other side of the - 742 00:56:15.860 --> 00:56:20.160 the other side of the coin, the other side of the map, is that if you use it 743 00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:26.160 critically, it's far easier to disarm opposition and to enter 744 00:56:26.160 --> 00:56:30.200 a space of discussion. Easier to startle, and to create a space in which 745 00:56:30.200 --> 00:56:35.500 discussion is possible. So when you have - we're all shut inside our bubbles 746 00:56:35.500 --> 00:56:40.600 of meaning, and to pierce a bubble of meaning, since people relate 747 00:56:40.600 --> 00:56:45.800 differently to the reality of the map, you manage it far more easily with a 748 00:56:45.800 --> 00:56:47.200 map than with a long speech. 749 00:56:47.200 --> 00:56:52.600 It's also 750 00:56:52.600 --> 00:56:57.800 a fundamental element in our capacity 751 00:56:57.800 --> 00:57:03.300 to move forward collectively: a capacity to better understand 752 00:57:03.300 --> 00:57:07.300 the world we're in. Here's an example I'll share with you, but one 753 00:57:07.300 --> 00:57:13.300 I lived through myself. I've just brought out an atlas on the 754 00:57:13.300 --> 00:57:18.500 world in 2050. And so you begin - what do you do? 755 00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.800 You gather data, the first data. 756 00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:25.900 You gather the population of countries in 2050 and how populations change, 757 00:57:25.900 --> 00:57:31.640 you print the listing. And I start working on writing the texts and so on, 758 00:57:31.640 --> 00:57:35.040 while the cartographers work on producing the map and the 759 00:57:35.040 --> 00:57:40.840 bar charts. And I'd say the first table doesn't give me much, 760 00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:45.340 much information I didn't already know about the ranking of countries. The 761 00:57:45.340 --> 00:57:50.840 second thing that comes out is a bar chart, and 762 00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:56.740 that chart leads me into a discussion. 763 00:57:56.740 --> 00:58:01.740 In the first draft I write fairly conventional things about 764 00:58:01.740 --> 00:58:06.440 Africa's growth, the growth and stabilisation of Asia - until the moment 765 00:58:06.440 --> 00:58:09.540 I receive the map. And in fact what I see when I receive the map, 766 00:58:09.540 --> 00:58:14.940 I think: this is what I hadn't realised with all the 767 00:58:14.940 --> 00:58:17.440 databases, even though I am used to reading databases 768 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:20.640 inside out and back to front - that what the figures were telling us 769 00:58:20.640 --> 00:58:26.340 was the coming of the Indian Ocean, and that the twenty-first century 770 00:58:26.340 --> 00:58:31.180 was the century of the Indian Ocean, where the second half of the twentieth century 771 00:58:31.180 --> 00:58:36.280 had no doubt been that of the Atlan- of the Pacific Ocean. And in fact when you 772 00:58:36.280 --> 00:58:39.180 look, when you look at the figures afterwards, 773 00:58:39.180 --> 00:58:44.680 you say: well yes, obviously - Pakistan, Kenya, Indonesia, India, 774 00:58:44.680 --> 00:58:49.180 Yemen, they're all around the Indian Ocean. But because it calls up 775 00:58:49.180 --> 00:58:52.880 completely, completely different mental boxes, a representation 776 00:58:52.880 --> 00:58:58.780 handled either by bar chart or by table 777 00:58:58.780 --> 00:59:04.280 gives no overall geographical view. And so, in this case, 778 00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:07.780 producing the map radically changes 779 00:59:07.780 --> 00:59:13.580 the perception of what's at stake. And that, at a moment when we are 780 00:59:13.580 --> 00:59:18.280 under pressure and constrained if we're to discuss properly together - precisely, 781 00:59:18.280 --> 00:59:24.280 to challenge our representations. The map is an element of revelation that lets us 782 00:59:24.280 --> 00:59:26.680 recentre or reposition debates that otherwise 783 00:59:27.120 --> 00:59:33.120 tend, or can tend, to go round in circles. So that lets us 784 00:59:33.120 --> 00:59:39.120 move on to the second subject: the question of our capacity to act. Once 785 00:59:39.120 --> 00:59:42.520 we've understood the world better, can we transform it, or can we 786 00:59:42.520 --> 00:59:47.920 act on it differently? This is a map of the unemployment rate. 787 00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:52.720 You've all probably seen it more or less: the national unemployment rate by 788 00:59:52.720 --> 00:59:58.720 employment zone. And what the map shows is that where we're 789 00:59:58.720 --> 01:00:04.720 constantly told, and read everywhere, that there's a problem of mass 790 01:00:04.720 --> 01:00:07.520 unemployment in this country, and that we must therefore make public policy to 791 01:00:07.520 --> 01:00:11.920 address mass unemployment - when you look at the map, 792 01:00:11.920 --> 01:00:17.020 there's a problem of mass unemployment in Languedoc-Roussillon, in the Nord 793 01:00:17.020 --> 01:00:20.620 and the Pas-de-Calais and around there. And elsewhere 794 01:00:20.620 --> 01:00:25.620 we're at almost full employment nearly everywhere - not exactly full employment, 795 01:00:25.620 --> 01:00:26.820 but not far off. 796 01:00:27.060 --> 01:00:32.460 And so, by producing at Bercy or at the labour ministry 797 01:00:32.460 --> 01:00:38.260 a reading and national public policies without any 798 01:00:38.260 --> 01:00:42.460 territorial view, we're making a mistake, in a way - because in 799 01:00:42.460 --> 01:00:45.360 fact we're deploying national public policies to deal with mass 800 01:00:45.360 --> 01:00:50.160 unemployment. We'd do far better, no doubt, to help three or four regions 801 01:00:50.160 --> 01:00:54.360 tackle mass unemployment or long-term unemployment differently. But 802 01:00:54.360 --> 01:01:00.160 we condemn ourselves, because we don't use geographical data, 803 01:01:00.160 --> 01:01:05.060 to looking at things in the same way. And that may seem - 804 01:01:05.060 --> 01:01:06.960 well, for some years now 805 01:01:06.960 --> 01:01:10.960 maps have made their way into the technical ministries. 806 01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:13.660 But I remember, when I arrived at Bercy - 807 01:01:13.660 --> 01:01:15.160 that was in 2004 - 808 01:01:15.160 --> 01:01:20.060 I must have been one of the first to bring a map into the Treasury directorate, 809 01:01:20.060 --> 01:01:24.160 because I was working on the question of urban policy. 810 01:01:24.160 --> 01:01:26.660 I found it a bit odd not to have any maps. But in fact, 811 01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:31.600 inside the Treasury directorate, including in the departments that 812 01:01:31.600 --> 01:01:33.600 worked on housing questions, on infrastructure questions 813 01:01:33.600 --> 01:01:38.500 and so on, there were no maps. So does that mean 814 01:01:38.500 --> 01:01:42.800 we only need to deal with the question of unemployment? Here too, 815 01:01:42.800 --> 01:01:48.200 getting hold of cartographic data 816 01:01:48.200 --> 01:01:53.700 lets you picture the subject just a little differently, because 817 01:01:53.700 --> 01:01:58.500 you see - if you look at the map of social mobility, if you look at 818 01:01:58.500 --> 01:02:01.600 the map of educational relegation, if you look at the map of assaults, 819 01:02:01.600 --> 01:02:06.300 if you look at the map of which départements and territories 820 01:02:06.300 --> 01:02:09.300 benefit most from redistributive mechanisms, 821 01:02:09.300 --> 01:02:14.800 you see that on all these subjects, which are broadly 822 01:02:14.800 --> 01:02:19.800 the dysfunctions of our social state - educational success, social 823 01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:22.800 mobility, the redistributive system, unemployment, 824 01:02:22.800 --> 01:02:26.800 precarity - it's always the same regions that stand out. 825 01:02:26.940 --> 01:02:32.840 And so that doesn't mean I'm 826 01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:37.240 committing a basic ecological fallacy on you, laying maps 827 01:02:37.240 --> 01:02:40.140 one on top of another and saying: look, and that's why your daughter is mute. 828 01:02:40.140 --> 01:02:46.040 I'm only saying that if we approached these different subjects 829 01:02:46.040 --> 01:02:49.840 with a territorial view - a really territorial one, 830 01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:54.640 because as we saw earlier, it isn't enough to have tables with the 831 01:02:54.640 --> 01:02:58.940 figures by département, that says nothing - if we approached all these subjects with 832 01:02:58.940 --> 01:03:03.040 a cartographic representation, in the technical ministries and in political 833 01:03:03.040 --> 01:03:07.240 circles, we'd no doubt have a different picture of the tensions 834 01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:13.240 running through our country. That raises the question of whether we can 835 01:03:13.240 --> 01:03:18.540 show everything. Because here we've taken a few subjects 836 01:03:18.540 --> 01:03:20.740 that turn around social questions, 837 01:03:20.740 --> 01:03:24.240 we have all the data and we can easily work with it. But can we do 838 01:03:24.240 --> 01:03:28.680 that across every subject, on the one hand, and on the other, 839 01:03:28.680 --> 01:03:34.680 do all subjects lend themselves to it? There's 840 01:03:34.680 --> 01:03:38.880 a first problem: the question of representing where we live democracy. 841 01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:44.080 Historically it's been: you vote where you live. That gave us the 842 01:03:44.080 --> 01:03:49.980 classic story of the democracy of sleep, where you 843 01:03:49.980 --> 01:03:54.080 vote where you sleep and not where you work - and all the questions that have 844 01:03:54.080 --> 01:03:59.280 arisen in political philosophy, proposing for instance that people 845 01:03:59.280 --> 01:04:03.680 should have two or three votes and use them wherever they like. 846 01:04:03.680 --> 01:04:08.880 You have three votes, not one - three - and you choose. You use one vote for the 847 01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:12.280 place where you sleep, one for the place where you 848 01:04:12.280 --> 01:04:16.180 work, one for the place where you like to spend your holidays, for example. But 849 01:04:16.180 --> 01:04:21.880 representing that on maps, and having a spatial representation of 850 01:04:21.880 --> 01:04:26.280 these questions, is still very complicated. 851 01:04:26.820 --> 01:04:31.420 Until fairly recently, we lived on administrative data about 852 01:04:31.420 --> 01:04:34.720 movement. Broadly, it wasn't even movement. 853 01:04:34.720 --> 01:04:36.320 It was your place of residence and your place of work, 854 01:04:36.320 --> 01:04:42.320 which is a fairly crude way of picturing 855 01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:45.320 these differences of geography. 856 01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:51.120 With telephone data we're starting to have the capacity to 857 01:04:51.120 --> 01:04:53.620 represent all of this a little more fluidly. 858 01:04:53.620 --> 01:04:58.920 Here you have the maps recently shared by Jacques Lévy on 859 01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:04.820 where and how people are located on average. And we see 860 01:05:04.820 --> 01:05:09.020 that there are places - broadly, if you look at the map on the 861 01:05:09.020 --> 01:05:13.920 right, an anamorphosis, you have in brown the areas where more presence is 862 01:05:13.920 --> 01:05:19.620 revealed by phones than there are people administratively registered. 863 01:05:19.620 --> 01:05:24.320 And so, paradoxically, remote working seems to 864 01:05:24.320 --> 01:05:26.620 suggest that people go 865 01:05:26.760 --> 01:05:28.760 to the countryside far more often. In reality, 866 01:05:28.760 --> 01:05:33.960 it leads to a strengthening of metropolisation. And what phone 867 01:05:33.960 --> 01:05:38.860 tracking reveals is that this mobility sends people everywhere, but that 868 01:05:38.860 --> 01:05:43.160 since they systematically pass through the centre, 869 01:05:43.160 --> 01:05:45.460 they are proportionally more present in the centre. 870 01:05:45.460 --> 01:05:50.960 And yet that doesn't mean they live there, it doesn't mean they picture themselves there, 871 01:05:50.960 --> 01:05:55.460 and it doesn't mean that centre is the fundamental one for them. 872 01:05:55.460 --> 01:06:00.360 Because it isn't because you live somewhere 873 01:06:00.360 --> 01:06:06.160 that it's there you project yourself, there that you 874 01:06:06.160 --> 01:06:10.060 imagine yourself. That takes us back to the question from earlier: 875 01:06:10.060 --> 01:06:12.860 we had Le Roi 876 01:06:12.860 --> 01:06:18.760 Louis. We can make a map of Minecraft. 877 01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:23.360 We can make maps of all sorts of things, we can make a map of our physical space. 878 01:06:23.360 --> 01:06:25.760 But I've looked. 879 01:06:26.700 --> 01:06:27.900 There are plenty of cartographers in the room - 880 01:06:27.900 --> 01:06:33.900 you'll tell me if there are any, and if they exist. But I found no maps 881 01:06:33.900 --> 01:06:36.100 of the metaverse, no map of maps. 882 01:06:36.100 --> 01:06:41.300 Whereas on the right you have 883 01:06:41.300 --> 01:06:47.300 the map of connectivity, hour by hour, at the 884 01:06:47.300 --> 01:06:51.700 scale of the planet. In this map we see where people connect; 885 01:06:51.700 --> 01:06:55.000 we don't know what they're doing while they're connected, 886 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:59.800 we don't know which universe they're projecting into. As a result, 887 01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.300 we don't know where they spend most of their lives. 888 01:07:02.300 --> 01:07:05.900 So when you spend six hours connected on a phone, 889 01:07:05.900 --> 01:07:09.800 which universe are you in? If we picture ourselves, 890 01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:15.000 we're sitting behind a phone, where we are - but in which universe do we 891 01:07:15.000 --> 01:07:19.700 project our lives? And those maps would in fact be essential, because 892 01:07:19.700 --> 01:07:22.900 that's what determines the worlds of thought we project ourselves into, 893 01:07:22.900 --> 01:07:26.940 that's what determines the communities we talk with. And over that, 894 01:07:26.940 --> 01:07:30.340 we have no hold in the same way. 895 01:07:30.340 --> 01:07:34.940 On the right you have the map of critical infrastructure for France 896 01:07:34.940 --> 01:07:40.540 in 2050. What we see very clearly is the classic infrastructure: 897 01:07:40.540 --> 01:07:45.340 roads, canals, railways. Those, 898 01:07:45.340 --> 01:07:50.140 we know how to draw. We've added to the map the nuclear power stations, 899 01:07:50.140 --> 01:07:54.840 the wind farms, the tidal farms, and all the data centres. 900 01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:59.440 In fact you can't see them, because a data centre is an infrastructure 901 01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:04.840 that's critical. It's even the internet hotspots, 902 01:08:04.840 --> 01:08:10.540 plus the connections to the main backbone, which is there. 903 01:08:10.540 --> 01:08:14.940 And data centres are probably among the most critical infrastructures 904 01:08:14.940 --> 01:08:18.840 of the next thirty years. And in fact 905 01:08:18.840 --> 01:08:24.740 we find it hard to picture them as critical infrastructure. And 906 01:08:24.740 --> 01:08:26.240 so we have a real problem today: 907 01:08:26.580 --> 01:08:32.080 on something central to the structuring of our spaces of life, of democracy, 908 01:08:32.080 --> 01:08:35.780 of the building of our activity, of our economy, 909 01:08:35.780 --> 01:08:41.580 we collectively have a poor picture of what matters - 910 01:08:41.580 --> 01:08:45.380 the place of the critical infrastructure that underpins it all. And besides, 911 01:08:45.380 --> 01:08:50.980 we can't represent, or picture, the interplay between the 912 01:08:50.980 --> 01:08:56.980 metaverses that underpin our projections and our mental maps. If 913 01:08:56.980 --> 01:08:59.980 we go back to the very beginning, when we're small, 914 01:08:59.980 --> 01:09:03.580 we have either Vidal de La Blache or the map of the départements today. 915 01:09:03.580 --> 01:09:09.080 We all have completely different mental maps of the world's problems, and our 916 01:09:09.080 --> 01:09:14.380 representations are largely overdetermined by the maps, or the graphic 917 01:09:14.380 --> 01:09:19.280 worlds, we've moved through - over which we have no control at all, because 918 01:09:19.280 --> 01:09:21.880 we don't know where they are, we can't locate them, we can't draw 919 01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:25.780 them. So it's going to be complicated to discuss them, since to 920 01:09:25.780 --> 01:09:28.920 discuss you need a shared space of representation. And that shared space of 921 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:34.220 representation, we don't know. The aim - something that could 922 01:09:34.220 --> 01:09:36.620 objectify these shared spaces of representation 923 01:09:36.620 --> 01:09:42.020 is having data. And among the hottest subjects there are some 924 01:09:42.020 --> 01:09:47.920 for which we don't go looking for the data at all - for example the question 925 01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:53.020 of the Great Replacement, of religions. 926 01:09:53.020 --> 01:09:58.120 It's a sensitive subject in this country. 927 01:09:58.120 --> 01:10:02.820 In fact, when you try to make the map of how faith 928 01:10:02.820 --> 01:10:08.820 evolves, and of the spatial 929 01:10:08.820 --> 01:10:14.820 representation of the different religions or of atheists, 930 01:10:14.820 --> 01:10:20.120 the only data you find is data from IFOP dating to 2012, 931 01:10:20.120 --> 01:10:23.520 and we're in 2024. 932 01:10:23.520 --> 01:10:26.020 Since then there's been the new poll that came out, 933 01:10:26.460 --> 01:10:32.460 the one that set the political debate alight last autumn. But that's the 934 01:10:32.460 --> 01:10:36.360 only data we have. Ah, no - we have other data too, since as we 935 01:10:36.360 --> 01:10:41.560 haven't got data on religion, people look instead at, for example - 936 01:10:41.560 --> 01:10:45.260 you may have heard of him, he's called Jérôme Fourquet - since he 937 01:10:45.260 --> 01:10:47.260 hadn't got the data on religions, he said to himself: what is the 938 01:10:47.260 --> 01:10:50.560 Great Replacement? It's the great replacement of first names. His mate Zemmour 939 01:10:50.560 --> 01:10:52.860 did the same, a little earlier. And so, as a result, 940 01:10:52.860 --> 01:10:56.160 what does he do? He takes INSEE's index and says: since the only data I 941 01:10:56.160 --> 01:10:59.860 have is first names, I'll look at where the first names go and how they 942 01:10:59.860 --> 01:11:04.360 break down by département. And so, on a fairly serious and fairly 943 01:11:04.360 --> 01:11:08.960 grave subject like that one, the only reasonably recent map you find 944 01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:14.860 is Fourquet's, on boys given first names of 945 01:11:14.860 --> 01:11:18.960 Arab-Muslim origin. And that map is regularly updated 946 01:11:18.960 --> 01:11:23.260 by Fdesouche, by Marion Maréchal-Le 947 01:11:23.260 --> 01:11:25.760 Pen and so on. If you look today for maps 948 01:11:26.400 --> 01:11:31.700 of, broadly, faiths and cultures 949 01:11:31.700 --> 01:11:35.300 in this country, the only people putting out maps 950 01:11:35.300 --> 01:11:40.600 are the far right - which poses a slight problem, 951 01:11:40.600 --> 01:11:45.100 because in effect they have a kind of monopoly on representing the 952 01:11:45.100 --> 01:11:51.000 problem. I'm not saying we need statistics on faith and so on; 953 01:11:51.000 --> 01:11:56.800 I'm just pointing out a problem that this reveals about shared spaces 954 01:11:56.800 --> 01:12:02.700 of discussion. Another decisive element about maps 955 01:12:02.700 --> 01:12:08.300 and spaces of democratic choice is how we represent our 956 01:12:08.300 --> 01:12:13.200 votes. Classically, the day after - the evening itself, the day after the election, 957 01:12:13.200 --> 01:12:18.200 you get a map by commune, by département, by region, showing the 958 01:12:18.200 --> 01:12:20.700 list that came first in the first round. So on the left, 959 01:12:20.700 --> 01:12:24.500 that's the map produced by Le Monde after the first round of the 2022 960 01:12:24.500 --> 01:12:29.340 presidential election. And the subtitle was "two Frances opposed", 961 01:12:29.340 --> 01:12:33.140 because there's a little red there, for those who can see it - 962 01:12:33.140 --> 01:12:37.240 a few communes where Mélenchon came first. But otherwise most of 963 01:12:37.240 --> 01:12:42.940 the map is a brown map, Marine Le Pen, versus a yellow map, Emmanuel Macron: 964 01:12:42.940 --> 01:12:47.140 two Frances opposed. And a month later, 965 01:12:47.140 --> 01:12:52.240 you get the map of the parliamentary results, which is a genuine 966 01:12:52.240 --> 01:12:58.040 mosaic. The problem is that there has been work by cartographers 967 01:12:58.040 --> 01:13:03.940 trying to represent the underlying diversity - because that map, 968 01:13:03.940 --> 01:13:06.740 when you look in detail at the first-round results, 969 01:13:06.740 --> 01:13:11.640 it's already there. You have to look at who came second or who came third, 970 01:13:11.640 --> 01:13:17.040 and often they're neck and neck. That mosaic map 971 01:13:17.040 --> 01:13:22.840 is already present in the results, except that 972 01:13:22.840 --> 01:13:25.940 to represent the complexity 973 01:13:26.280 --> 01:13:31.280 of the first-round result, the map I found most convincing 974 01:13:31.280 --> 01:13:35.080 is one that does an ascending hierarchical classification and 975 01:13:35.080 --> 01:13:38.780 produces a typology in seven classes of the first-round results, one per 976 01:13:38.780 --> 01:13:40.980 commune. Good luck explaining that on the eight o'clock news. 977 01:13:40.980 --> 01:13:46.280 It's far simpler to have two Frances opposed, and then to 978 01:13:46.280 --> 01:13:48.680 say: ah well, the country can't be governed - 979 01:13:48.680 --> 01:13:53.480 it can't be governed if we tell ourselves there are two Frances opposed. And so 980 01:13:53.480 --> 01:13:57.080 the question is how we - in effect, we structure mental 981 01:13:57.080 --> 01:14:01.980 representations. We structure a bipolarisation of the national debate. 982 01:14:01.980 --> 01:14:07.680 We structure representations around opposing blocs. For instance, 983 01:14:07.680 --> 01:14:13.580 if you look at the 2017 results and the 2022 results, the President 984 01:14:13.580 --> 01:14:19.280 of the Republic broadly scores flat from a territorial point of view; 985 01:14:19.280 --> 01:14:21.180 there are small variations. 986 01:14:21.180 --> 01:14:25.580 But in reality there isn't a single area where he's below 18. 987 01:14:26.220 --> 01:14:30.620 There isn't a single area, a single category of area, where he's above 28. So 988 01:14:30.620 --> 01:14:34.220 what characterises the Emmanuel Macron vote 989 01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:38.320 isn't that there's a Le Pen France against a Macron France. 990 01:14:38.320 --> 01:14:43.720 There's a France in which part of the territory is where Le Pen 991 01:14:43.720 --> 01:14:46.820 scores heavily - but in reality those are the places that come 992 01:14:46.820 --> 01:14:51.820 slightly above Macron's national score, which is uniform. And so, 993 01:14:51.820 --> 01:14:57.020 by passing over all these territorial complexities, the map - 994 01:14:57.020 --> 01:15:03.020 and the wish to show a map - simplifies the debate and prevents real 995 01:15:03.020 --> 01:15:05.620 democratic discussion in all its complexity. 996 01:15:05.620 --> 01:15:11.420 So there we have a problem with maps. And likewise with 997 01:15:11.420 --> 01:15:16.020 the question of where and how, of which world we project ourselves into. 998 01:15:16.020 --> 01:15:21.920 I experienced this when I was 999 01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:26.120 working on the atlas: you only have to show a map of France in 2050 1000 01:15:26.160 --> 01:15:31.060 and people project themselves. Broadly, you say the future. In the same way, 1001 01:15:31.060 --> 01:15:36.960 I've been working for some time now, for some months, on the future of the 1002 01:15:36.960 --> 01:15:41.960 Thau basin and the Sète region. When you bring out a map produced by 1003 01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:46.760 the engineers at Hydratec on what the sea-level rise will be, 1004 01:15:46.760 --> 01:15:50.760 there's a side to it that feels like a revelation - the Bible has spoken, and it's 1005 01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:55.660 even on a map. So here, in fact, you have to appreciate all the 1006 01:15:55.660 --> 01:16:00.960 care of the planner and the engineers. 1007 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:03.660 It was about working, and in this case - 1008 01:16:03.660 --> 01:16:06.760 well, you said earlier that I work a lot on democratic 1009 01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:12.460 questions. I worked upstream of the maps on the whole structure of 1010 01:16:12.460 --> 01:16:18.460 discussion, of spoken representation, that people projected behind the question 1011 01:16:18.460 --> 01:16:24.460 of rising seas. And that meant that when we brought the map out, we didn't bring the 1012 01:16:24.460 --> 01:16:30.000 map out saying: here is the state of things in twenty years 1013 01:16:30.000 --> 01:16:33.800 and here is what you must adapt to. Because the natural tendency - I've seen it in 1014 01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:36.300 other places, systematically, in today's 1015 01:16:36.300 --> 01:16:39.100 partnership development programmes - is to begin with the engineering, 1016 01:16:39.100 --> 01:16:42.300 bring out the map so as to be able to discuss. And as a result, 1017 01:16:42.300 --> 01:16:47.900 that has two consequences: it freezes the debate - the map has spoken - and 1018 01:16:47.900 --> 01:16:52.700 it polarises the debate on the map itself, because: at my place 1019 01:16:52.700 --> 01:16:57.900 nothing moves, and so I refuse it. What we did 1020 01:16:57.900 --> 01:17:03.400 instead was to take the map as an object of scientific discussion, saying: 1021 01:17:03.400 --> 01:17:06.700 what we heard where you live, 1022 01:17:06.700 --> 01:17:11.300 listening to you, was that there were these debates, this subject, that subject, 1023 01:17:11.300 --> 01:17:15.400 that subject, which mattered. And so, following on from that - 1024 01:17:15.400 --> 01:17:20.500 I haven't shown them all, but we hung on the map 1025 01:17:20.500 --> 01:17:24.300 the debates the inhabitants were having about their area. 1026 01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:26.540 They had questions about housing, 1027 01:17:26.540 --> 01:17:29.740 they had questions about critical infrastructure. And so, broadly, 1028 01:17:29.740 --> 01:17:33.840 we tied the map and the debates together straight away, so that the map 1029 01:17:33.840 --> 01:17:38.540 would support the debate and not answer it. 1030 01:17:38.540 --> 01:17:42.440 In reality, a map. 1031 01:17:42.440 --> 01:17:48.040 You know this better than I do: it's often seen as an answer, 1032 01:17:48.040 --> 01:17:52.640 whereas in fact it's a play between intentions, between the 1033 01:17:52.640 --> 01:17:58.540 reframings of the question, and a play between the different possible 1034 01:17:58.540 --> 01:18:02.840 answers. And it's that tension between intention, question and answers that makes 1035 01:18:02.840 --> 01:18:05.440 a good map. To have that tension, 1036 01:18:05.440 --> 01:18:10.540 we need to draw on every point of view in tension 1037 01:18:10.540 --> 01:18:12.540 in the political debate, in the local debate. 1038 01:18:12.540 --> 01:18:16.240 So broadly, the map can't be produced outside the debate, because 1039 01:18:16.240 --> 01:18:21.140 otherwise it polarises it, it radicalises it. If, on the other hand, we use it 1040 01:18:21.140 --> 01:18:24.640 as a tool, as a means 1041 01:18:25.980 --> 01:18:31.280 of showing the tensions that drive and structure local debate, then 1042 01:18:31.280 --> 01:18:34.780 they are a tremendous engine of democratic acceleration, because 1043 01:18:34.780 --> 01:18:39.180 they give representation to debates we find hard to 1044 01:18:39.180 --> 01:18:44.980 formulate, and they bring into view the underlying 1045 01:18:44.980 --> 01:18:49.880 debates we haven't yet named - provided we go looking for them. And so 1046 01:18:49.880 --> 01:18:52.880 the point isn't to produce maps thinking - we see today 1047 01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:56.980 a profusion of maps coming out from every direction. 1048 01:18:56.980 --> 01:19:02.980 That's the effect of a very simple process 1049 01:19:02.980 --> 01:19:08.980 we're all living through: multiplication. What is a map? It's a database, 1050 01:19:08.980 --> 01:19:14.080 a production tool, a distribution tool. When I started 1051 01:19:14.080 --> 01:19:17.380 working on maps, it was in the nineties. 1052 01:19:17.380 --> 01:19:22.480 We were beginning to think about gridded data at INSEE. 1053 01:19:22.480 --> 01:19:25.680 There was fairly little data. 1054 01:19:25.920 --> 01:19:31.920 Today it's accelerating, there's big data. We had data on 1055 01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:33.420 which - in fact the production tools 1056 01:19:33.420 --> 01:19:35.320 were frustrating. 1057 01:19:35.320 --> 01:19:40.220 We had a few base maps, and you had to master 1058 01:19:40.220 --> 01:19:42.620 the mapping software to use them. Today 1059 01:19:42.620 --> 01:19:48.520 you take any tool at all, including a colouring one, 1060 01:19:48.520 --> 01:19:52.820 and it lets you turn out a map. And the third element 1061 01:19:52.820 --> 01:19:58.020 is the capacity to distribute. The first maps I turned out 1062 01:19:58.020 --> 01:20:02.920 were laser-printed on transparencies, to show that - 1063 01:20:02.920 --> 01:20:06.020 yes, all right, I'm old, but that's what it was: 1064 01:20:06.020 --> 01:20:10.120 laser printing on coloured transparencies so as to share it. Suffice 1065 01:20:10.120 --> 01:20:13.220 to say that was before the map left the meeting room. Today 1066 01:20:13.220 --> 01:20:18.820 you fetch a dataset from somewhere in three and a half minutes - 1067 01:20:18.820 --> 01:20:20.720 there are even AIs that do it for you now. 1068 01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:25.720 You turn out a pretty map and throw it onto a network. And we're 1069 01:20:25.860 --> 01:20:31.760 faced with what Bernard Stiegler analysed very well: the consequences 1070 01:20:31.760 --> 01:20:37.360 of the tipping of the analogue age into the digital age. The small extra difficulty 1071 01:20:37.360 --> 01:20:41.360 we have with the map in particular - this is where the loop closes - 1072 01:20:41.360 --> 01:20:47.260 is that since it's an object we haven't been educated in, 1073 01:20:47.260 --> 01:20:51.160 we fall easy victim to every manipulation. 1074 01:20:51.160 --> 01:20:56.960 And so for me there's a decisive stake, if we want to use 1075 01:20:56.960 --> 01:21:00.460 maps effectively - because what I said earlier remains true: 1076 01:21:00.460 --> 01:21:06.360 the map is an extremely rich tool for giving shared frames 1077 01:21:06.360 --> 01:21:09.760 and for making democratic debate possible and easier. 1078 01:21:09.760 --> 01:21:15.760 But at the same time it's a tool of choice for manipulation. So there's 1079 01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:19.760 a real stake in education about maps, so that within this democratic tension 1080 01:21:19.760 --> 01:21:25.160 between caricature and polarisation of the debate 1081 01:21:25.800 --> 01:21:31.400 and, on the other side, enrichment of the debate by creating 1082 01:21:31.400 --> 01:21:36.500 different systems of representation, we tip towards the right side. And that's - 1083 01:21:36.500 --> 01:21:41.000 well, we haven't much time. That's why I'm very glad this 1084 01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:46.300 initiative exists, because I think it plays a part. But there's a real 1085 01:21:46.300 --> 01:21:51.700 battle to fight over the democratisation of the map, so that the map 1086 01:21:51.700 --> 01:21:57.100 serves democracy instead of being served by it. Long live the Republic, 1087 01:21:57.100 --> 01:21:58.700 long live the map. 1088 01:21:58.700 --> 01:22:04.700 Questions? 1089 01:22:04.700 --> 01:22:06.900 Thank you. 1090 01:22:06.900 --> 01:22:10.300 Thank you very much Frédéric Gilli for that brilliant talk. 1091 01:22:10.300 --> 01:22:11.900 We have time for a few questions. 1092 01:22:11.900 --> 01:22:16.800 I have a microphone, if anyone in the room wants to ask a question and if 1093 01:22:16.800 --> 01:22:18.000 Frédéric Gilli is willing to answer. 1094 01:22:25.740 --> 01:22:31.540 In the end, 1095 01:22:31.540 --> 01:22:36.740 representation by map, put in perspective, rests on a single 1096 01:22:36.740 --> 01:22:42.340 thing: differences and inequalities. Isn't there a risk of 1097 01:22:42.340 --> 01:22:47.940 reinforcing this fault I see as rather French, the tendency towards 1098 01:22:47.940 --> 01:22:53.840 egalitarianism? I 1099 01:22:53.840 --> 01:22:56.840 don't know whether everyone heard the question clearly. 1100 01:22:56.840 --> 01:23:01.840 What the map represents is inequalities and differences, 1101 01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:07.740 so broadly, won't it tend to reinforce the French 1102 01:23:07.740 --> 01:23:13.540 tropism of always seeking equality, and so, broadly, to bias 1103 01:23:13.540 --> 01:23:19.540 the debate from the outset? Well, it happens that I'm 1104 01:23:19.540 --> 01:23:22.840 currently working with an institute other than IGN, called the 1105 01:23:22.840 --> 01:23:25.140 national institute of statistics and economic studies. 1106 01:23:25.680 --> 01:23:29.680 We're touring France on figures and democracy. 1107 01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:35.480 Broadly, we bring people together in Marseille, in Nantes 1108 01:23:35.480 --> 01:23:40.380 and so on, so they can discuss together the question of figures and 1109 01:23:40.380 --> 01:23:43.380 their relationship to democracy, to help INSEE produce better 1110 01:23:43.380 --> 01:23:47.080 statistics. And what do the inhabitants tell us everywhere, what do they 1111 01:23:47.080 --> 01:23:52.080 say to INSEE? All sorts of things, but one fundamental one: if you 1112 01:23:52.080 --> 01:23:57.380 could stop always speaking only in averages - because we are 1113 01:23:57.380 --> 01:24:00.580 all different, and behind the average 1114 01:24:00.580 --> 01:24:06.380 you miss the diversity of our situations. 1115 01:24:06.380 --> 01:24:10.580 And so you can't properly answer the questions the 1116 01:24:10.580 --> 01:24:14.480 country is asking, and you can't even speak to us properly, because 1117 01:24:14.480 --> 01:24:16.780 you speak from figures, and so from averages. 1118 01:24:16.780 --> 01:24:22.280 I get the feeling INSEE is tearing its hair out, thinking: how on earth 1119 01:24:22.280 --> 01:24:26.020 do I make representations by decile? They won't understand 1120 01:24:26.020 --> 01:24:29.320 any of it. And I have the feeling a good map 1121 01:24:29.320 --> 01:24:33.320 could answer quite a few questions of that kind. 1122 01:24:33.320 --> 01:24:38.420 That is, it's less telling, less vocal than a 1123 01:24:38.420 --> 01:24:42.720 figure and an average, but it does let you picture this question in a way 1124 01:24:42.720 --> 01:24:48.120 that's very easy to take hold of, far more so than a representation by decile. 1125 01:24:48.120 --> 01:24:53.620 And as it happens, people are hungry for complexity. 1126 01:24:53.620 --> 01:24:58.620 I find democratic debate in this country lacks nuance and complexity, 1127 01:24:58.620 --> 01:25:03.620 and I have the feeling maps could add nuance and 1128 01:25:03.620 --> 01:25:07.120 complexity - because in a way inequalities 1129 01:25:07.120 --> 01:25:10.720 are like hunters: there are good ones and bad ones. And so broadly we 1130 01:25:10.720 --> 01:25:14.920 could then discuss whether we've represented the right things 1131 01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:17.620 or whether we haven't. 1132 01:25:17.620 --> 01:25:23.420 Thank you very much. Is there another question for Frédéric 1133 01:25:23.420 --> 01:25:24.620 Gilli in the room? 1134 01:25:25.560 --> 01:25:31.560 Hello. 1135 01:25:32.660 --> 01:25:36.960 So, for context, I'm a contributor on Wikipedia. And when 1136 01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:38.760 you mentioned the example of the presidential elections, 1137 01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:42.160 I wondered what maps my fellow contributors have 1138 01:25:42.160 --> 01:25:45.060 used to represent the presidential elections. And indeed 1139 01:25:45.060 --> 01:25:49.760 they're the rather basic maps showing who came first by commune. So 1140 01:25:49.760 --> 01:25:54.160 I wondered whether you have a view on the use of maps - on the 1141 01:25:54.160 --> 01:25:57.860 way maps are produced on Wikipedia. Any comment, any view, 1142 01:25:57.860 --> 01:26:03.760 any advice? I'll take the second question at the same time. 1143 01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:08.060 Thank you for the talk. I'm Nicolas Signes, at IGN's 1144 01:26:08.060 --> 01:26:12.860 engineering school, Géode, in Paris for a few months. You 1145 01:26:12.860 --> 01:26:17.860 mentioned the idea of training people, of making citizens more able to 1146 01:26:17.860 --> 01:26:19.160 understand what lies behind a map. 1147 01:26:19.160 --> 01:26:23.160 Do you see anything specific in building that skill, compared with 1148 01:26:23.160 --> 01:26:28.700 critical thinking in general? So, 1149 01:26:28.700 --> 01:26:34.700 on the first point - I can't remember whether it was France Télé or Le Monde 1150 01:26:34.700 --> 01:26:38.000 who, after producing the map I came across earlier, 1151 01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:42.200 the next day, on their website - because otherwise it would have taken too many pages, 1152 01:26:42.200 --> 01:26:44.500 though they ran an extract on paper - 1153 01:26:44.500 --> 01:26:50.200 had produced the deviations from the average, and the over- 1154 01:26:50.200 --> 01:26:56.200 representations, for each of the candidates. And I 1155 01:26:56.200 --> 01:27:00.700 tend to favour that approach. In the same way, when we made 1156 01:27:00.700 --> 01:27:06.700 our atlas on France in 2050, precisely to avoid that feeling that 1157 01:27:06.700 --> 01:27:10.900 the matter is settled, we set ourselves two constraints: one, to write no scenario, 1158 01:27:10.900 --> 01:27:16.900 precisely so as not to close the game down; and two, to make sure 1159 01:27:16.900 --> 01:27:20.500 that on each of the plates - it's an atlas laid out across double pages - on 1160 01:27:20.500 --> 01:27:24.700 each of the plates there wasn't one truth, that all the maps were 1161 01:27:24.700 --> 01:27:30.440 contradictory with one another, so as to force critical thinking. 1162 01:27:30.440 --> 01:27:33.040 And so broadly I think there's a real - 1163 01:27:33.040 --> 01:27:38.640 there's a real responsibility weighing on everyone who 1164 01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:44.440 produces discourse, figures and maps, and it is to 1165 01:27:44.440 --> 01:27:50.340 resist the temptation of the absolute answer. And it's terribly hard to 1166 01:27:50.340 --> 01:27:55.540 resist, because everything pushes us to give answers, 1167 01:27:55.540 --> 01:28:00.740 and that's what gives us social standing, and that's why we get invited 1168 01:28:00.740 --> 01:28:03.640 here and there - because we have answers, and people are looking for 1169 01:28:03.640 --> 01:28:05.440 answers. In reality, people are looking for questions. 1170 01:28:05.440 --> 01:28:11.440 We're all looking for questions, and the day we understand better the 1171 01:28:11.440 --> 01:28:16.640 questions we have to deal with, the answers will come. Today, in this country 1172 01:28:16.640 --> 01:28:20.140 and in Europe, we have a problem of questions. 1173 01:28:20.140 --> 01:28:25.240 And so what we'd need is precisely critical thinking. And 1174 01:28:25.380 --> 01:28:26.780 from that point of view, you're right. 1175 01:28:26.780 --> 01:28:31.880 That is, education about maps is the same as education about figures, 1176 01:28:31.880 --> 01:28:35.380 the same as education about sources online. The question is 1177 01:28:35.380 --> 01:28:41.380 how we strengthen critical culture. In reality - 1178 01:28:41.380 --> 01:28:43.680 I work a great deal with young people. 1179 01:28:43.680 --> 01:28:45.880 They aren't short of critical thinking at all. 1180 01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:50.080 If you look at social media today, at the analyses done on 1181 01:28:50.080 --> 01:28:51.980 social media, those who lack perspective most 1182 01:28:51.980 --> 01:28:56.680 aren't the young, it's the old - those who do most 1183 01:28:56.680 --> 01:29:01.680 to spread conspiracy talk, fake news and so on 1184 01:29:01.680 --> 01:29:05.980 are the boomers, not the young. So it's completely, perhaps, 1185 01:29:05.980 --> 01:29:09.280 counter-intuitive compared with what we put about in how we see young people, 1186 01:29:09.280 --> 01:29:13.880 but young people are largely native to all of this. And if there's 1187 01:29:13.880 --> 01:29:17.980 education to be done about maps, it's the over-sixties it should be aimed at, 1188 01:29:17.980 --> 01:29:21.880 not the under-twenties. So it isn't a question of education at 1189 01:29:21.880 --> 01:29:24.580 school - it must be done at school, obviously. 1190 01:29:25.320 --> 01:29:29.520 But the urgent thing today is popular education about the 1191 01:29:29.520 --> 01:29:33.820 map. Thank you very much. Perhaps one last question, and a remark: 1192 01:29:33.820 --> 01:29:35.920 Marguerite Duras, in 1983, 1193 01:29:35.920 --> 01:29:37.820 was asked what the future would look like. 1194 01:29:37.820 --> 01:29:41.420 She said: there will be nothing but answers, when what we need are questions. 1195 01:29:41.420 --> 01:29:43.220 One last question. 1196 01:29:43.220 --> 01:29:48.820 Let me remind you that we'll find 1197 01:29:48.820 --> 01:29:51.920 Frédéric Gilli again for a drink with the whole team. 1198 01:29:51.920 --> 01:29:55.220 So if you want to carry on the discussion - you're not going 1199 01:29:55.220 --> 01:29:58.120 straight away, you're not vanishing? Ah no, if there's a drink, 1200 01:29:58.120 --> 01:30:00.720 I'm here. Good evening. 1201 01:30:00.720 --> 01:30:03.620 I'm Jean-Baptiste, and I have the pleasure of running Michelin's publishing arm. 1202 01:30:03.620 --> 01:30:08.520 Philippe Sablayrolles, who has run cartography for more than twenty years, 1203 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:10.520 would be far more legitimate than I am. First, 1204 01:30:10.520 --> 01:30:14.120 I wanted to thank you for paying tribute to the work of democratising and 1205 01:30:14.120 --> 01:30:18.120 spreading maps made possible by Michelin. But beyond the corporate 1206 01:30:18.120 --> 01:30:23.920 plug I'm inflicting on myself, I wanted to ask you about the question of 1207 01:30:23.920 --> 01:30:27.160 digitalisation. I put the question after reading 1208 01:30:27.160 --> 01:30:31.460 L'Heure des prédateurs, by Giuliano da Empoli. He ends his book on this story of a 1209 01:30:31.460 --> 01:30:36.960 town in the inner Paris suburbs where a mayor can't stop Waze and 1210 01:30:36.960 --> 01:30:41.260 its tens of thousands of users from taking the street that runs 1211 01:30:41.260 --> 01:30:44.860 past a school, and gets caught in this completely mad trap, 1212 01:30:44.860 --> 01:30:49.360 a cascading labyrinth. He ends his book on that. And so the 1213 01:30:49.360 --> 01:30:53.260 two questions I'd put to you are: one, have we not already lost our sense of 1214 01:30:53.260 --> 01:30:57.460 direction? And two, have we not already lost the battle for geographic 1215 01:30:57.460 --> 01:31:01.360 sovereignty? So - 1216 01:31:01.360 --> 01:31:06.360 thirty seconds, is that it? 1217 01:31:06.360 --> 01:31:10.960 Yes. 1218 01:31:10.960 --> 01:31:16.360 No, it's - we're trying to - 1219 01:31:16.360 --> 01:31:22.060 this is like winning Burger Quiz. But beyond Burger Quiz: 1220 01:31:25.200 --> 01:31:28.800 in fact the question of direction, 1221 01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:32.000 I think it's central today. We have lost our sense of direction. 1222 01:31:32.000 --> 01:31:36.500 But we've broadly lost our sense of direction from looking - including 1223 01:31:36.500 --> 01:31:40.100 those who have a very good sense of direction - from looking at our phones 1224 01:31:40.100 --> 01:31:44.300 for anything and everything rather than looking at streets, landscapes, slopes 1225 01:31:44.300 --> 01:31:48.400 to find our bearings. But above all, most fundamentally, 1226 01:31:48.400 --> 01:31:54.200 we've lost our political sense of direction. And that's what we're talking about, 1227 01:31:54.200 --> 01:31:58.600 Rosanvallon, and it's a little of that I tried to talk about, 1228 01:31:58.600 --> 01:32:02.300 that I tried to talk about just now. That is, in a world that changes 1229 01:32:02.300 --> 01:32:07.700 extremely fast and whose fundamental landmarks are being shaken, 1230 01:32:07.700 --> 01:32:13.400 we no longer have shared landmarks. And the problem of answers and questions 1231 01:32:13.400 --> 01:32:16.100 is that in order to build shared landmarks, 1232 01:32:16.100 --> 01:32:21.100 you have to know why. So in fact we have to ask ourselves together 1233 01:32:21.100 --> 01:32:25.000 which map we should produce, which representation. 1234 01:32:25.140 --> 01:32:30.740 Around which representation should we agree? And when we don't do that, 1235 01:32:30.740 --> 01:32:36.440 we don't get there. I remember interviewing, just after the 1236 01:32:36.440 --> 01:32:41.740 gilets jaunes, a retired manager from near Toulouse, who said: 1237 01:32:41.740 --> 01:32:44.240 democracy doesn't come down to a vote. The vote 1238 01:32:44.240 --> 01:32:46.240 is the sanction of the debate. Today 1239 01:32:46.240 --> 01:32:48.440 we no longer debate, neither in political parties, 1240 01:32:48.440 --> 01:32:53.240 nor in unions, nor in our local authorities - and that's the problem. 1241 01:32:53.240 --> 01:32:55.440 I think he's fundamentally right. 1242 01:32:55.440 --> 01:32:59.840 And that's what makes us lose our sense of direction, because 1243 01:32:59.840 --> 01:33:01.340 after a sense of direction there's north, 1244 01:33:01.340 --> 01:33:02.940 there's south, there's east and west. 1245 01:33:02.940 --> 01:33:04.140 There's the left. 1246 01:33:04.140 --> 01:33:08.940 There's the right. We could reposition political compasses, and even the 1247 01:33:08.940 --> 01:33:14.640 parties would find ideological lines again. 1248 01:33:14.640 --> 01:33:16.340 It's a word I 1249 01:33:16.340 --> 01:33:20.340 like a great deal, ideology. It mustn't shut anything down, but in fact 1250 01:33:20.340 --> 01:33:23.440 we need ideas - ideas are what run the world. And today 1251 01:33:23.440 --> 01:33:24.940 we no longer know what to 1252 01:33:25.080 --> 01:33:29.680 rest our ideas on, or how to orient them. And there, maps can help. And the 1253 01:33:29.680 --> 01:33:35.180 second point, on sovereignty - I'd almost want to let 1254 01:33:35.180 --> 01:33:36.880 Sébastien Soriano answer. 1255 01:33:36.880 --> 01:33:42.680 I think not, and precisely because 1256 01:33:42.680 --> 01:33:48.080 I have a fundamental disagreement with the book, with the thesis of L'Heure des prédateurs. 1257 01:33:48.080 --> 01:33:50.580 For me, we aren't in the age of predators. 1258 01:33:50.580 --> 01:33:52.080 We're in the age of scavengers. 1259 01:33:52.080 --> 01:33:57.780 It's as if, in fact, 1260 01:33:57.780 --> 01:34:00.680 the people attacking democracy today 1261 01:34:00.680 --> 01:34:03.480 aren't big cats, they're coyotes. 1262 01:34:03.480 --> 01:34:09.380 They're hyenas. And in fact it's simply that those who were 1263 01:34:09.380 --> 01:34:14.580 supposed to be guarding the camp - political parties, leaders and so on - 1264 01:34:14.580 --> 01:34:18.880 were playing poker. And while they were playing poker 1265 01:34:18.880 --> 01:34:22.480 and having drinks in the saloon, the coyotes came and moved in. When we'd 1266 01:34:22.480 --> 01:34:23.680 just need 1267 01:34:25.020 --> 01:34:30.220 to take our destiny back in hand. We'd just need to do 1268 01:34:30.220 --> 01:34:34.720 politics again in the noble sense of the word. On that reckoning, 1269 01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.620 we can manage it: we have companies 1270 01:34:37.620 --> 01:34:41.620 that are competent, we have engineers. 1271 01:34:41.620 --> 01:34:45.520 We have technicians. We have a young generation that wants it. 1272 01:34:45.520 --> 01:34:50.020 We have money. Between now and 2050 1273 01:34:50.020 --> 01:34:53.520 we're going to invest twenty trillion euros in France, 1274 01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:58.120 we're going to create a hundred trillion euros of wealth. 1275 01:34:58.120 --> 01:34:59.920 So in fact we don't have a cash problem. 1276 01:34:59.920 --> 01:35:04.120 We do have a real money problem: once we've spent it somewhere, 1277 01:35:04.120 --> 01:35:08.020 we can't spend it elsewhere. So the only questions we have 1278 01:35:08.020 --> 01:35:09.720 are these three. 1279 01:35:09.720 --> 01:35:14.720 Where do we take the money from, where do we put it, and who decides? 1280 01:35:14.720 --> 01:35:18.620 But once we've settled those questions, 1281 01:35:18.620 --> 01:35:21.620 we do have the means for our sovereignty. 1282 01:35:21.620 --> 01:35:24.320 We just need to take ourselves in hand, that's all. 1283 01:35:24.960 --> 01:35:27.260 And that's a matter 1284 01:35:27.260 --> 01:35:29.260 not just for political leaders, 1285 01:35:29.260 --> 01:35:30.560 it's a matter for each of us. 1286 01:35:30.560 --> 01:35:32.660 Thank you very much. 1287 01:35:32.660 --> 01:35:37.360 Thank you very much. 1288 01:35:37.360 --> 01:35:43.060 Thank you, thank you Frédéric Gilli, and long live questions. To conclude I'll hand 1289 01:35:43.060 --> 01:35:47.560 over to the magician of La République des cartes, Emmanuelle. 1290 01:35:47.560 --> 01:35:48.560 Thank you. 1291 01:35:48.560 --> 01:35:54.560 I'd 1292 01:35:56.560 --> 01:35:57.860 say - here we are. First, 1293 01:35:57.860 --> 01:36:02.260 let me say a very, very big thank you. 1294 01:36:02.260 --> 01:36:07.460 Thank you all for being here, thank you for taking 1295 01:36:07.460 --> 01:36:12.360 part, for believing in it, to everyone who was there from the very first hour. 1296 01:36:12.360 --> 01:36:15.660 One thing struck me in this project. When I arrived, 1297 01:36:15.660 --> 01:36:19.660 two years ago, a little more than two years ago now, alongside Sébastien Soriano at 1298 01:36:19.660 --> 01:36:21.860 IGN, I don't come from cartography. 1299 01:36:21.860 --> 01:36:24.160 I don't come from geography. My thing is the digital world, 1300 01:36:24.160 --> 01:36:28.900 it's data. Absolutely nothing to do with it. I had strictly never asked myself 1301 01:36:28.900 --> 01:36:30.200 the question of how maps are made. 1302 01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:34.700 I had no idea. And the first mission I'm given is, 1303 01:36:34.700 --> 01:36:37.500 more or less: we want to do something that at the time 1304 01:36:37.500 --> 01:36:41.500 was called the Rencontres de la carto. And, Emmanuelle, 1305 01:36:41.500 --> 01:36:46.500 you have to show how the map is linked to democracy - and you should 1306 01:36:46.500 --> 01:36:48.600 make the Cambridge Analytica of the map. 1307 01:36:48.600 --> 01:36:52.700 I think I left the office thinking: right, 1308 01:36:52.700 --> 01:36:57.900 the Cambridge of the map. So, there we are. 1309 01:36:57.900 --> 01:37:01.000 Yes, yes, we were told it wasn't possible. 1310 01:37:01.000 --> 01:37:03.200 Yes, I can confirm that, Sébastien. 1311 01:37:03.200 --> 01:37:07.300 We were told so a great deal. And I think, when we said we wanted to do it 1312 01:37:07.300 --> 01:37:10.600 as a Fête de la Musique - and I'd rather say a Fête de la Musique than a Fête 1313 01:37:10.600 --> 01:37:13.300 de la Science, because what we're talking about tonight, and I think with 1314 01:37:13.300 --> 01:37:17.000 Frédéric - thank you for saying yes too - is really a question of 1315 01:37:17.000 --> 01:37:20.800 culture. It's a cultural object. And so, there we are, 1316 01:37:20.800 --> 01:37:25.740 we made it a Fête de la Musique. 1317 01:37:25.740 --> 01:37:29.240 I think that was back in June. And what I want to say to you 1318 01:37:29.240 --> 01:37:33.740 is that tonight, tonight you've seen the proof - because we told ourselves this was 1319 01:37:33.740 --> 01:37:36.640 a small proof of concept, just to see whether there really was something 1320 01:37:36.640 --> 01:37:40.940 here or not, that we had to stop discussing it round a table and throw 1321 01:37:40.940 --> 01:37:45.640 the thing up in the air to see what would happen. And I don't know about you, but 1322 01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:47.540 I'd said that if we got sixty points on the map, 1323 01:37:47.540 --> 01:37:53.140 we'd be happy. We have 150 - 115 points lighting up, events all over France 1324 01:37:53.140 --> 01:37:54.340 and in Antarctica. 1325 01:37:54.340 --> 01:38:00.340 And I can 1326 01:38:00.340 --> 01:38:05.840 tell you we did it with string and sealing wax, including vibe coding, 1327 01:38:05.840 --> 01:38:09.640 if I may say so, to build the website. 1328 01:38:09.640 --> 01:38:11.440 Thank you Matthieu, among others. 1329 01:38:11.440 --> 01:38:15.840 So let me say a very, very big 1330 01:38:15.840 --> 01:38:20.040 thank you to you all, thank you to the partners and thank you to the team. 1331 01:38:20.040 --> 01:38:25.780 And so I'm going to ask everyone who took part in this adventure - 1332 01:38:25.780 --> 01:38:29.080 the team is you, and La République des cartes 1333 01:38:29.080 --> 01:38:34.280 is you. So thank you. Come up: Claire, Maxime of course, 1334 01:38:34.280 --> 01:38:38.580 Laurent, Dominique and the whole crew, because I can tell you they've 1335 01:38:38.580 --> 01:38:41.480 worked like mad. And I think we can give them a round of applause 1336 01:38:41.480 --> 01:38:46.080 of their own, because I can tell you we really, really are with them. 1337 01:38:46.080 --> 01:38:48.980 So come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, 1338 01:38:48.980 --> 01:38:51.580 come, come, come, come, come. Claire, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, come, 1339 01:38:51.580 --> 01:38:56.580 come, come, come. And obviously NoDesign, because 1340 01:38:56.580 --> 01:38:59.380 we wouldn't have this emblem without you. 1341 01:38:59.380 --> 01:39:03.980 I don't know where they are - Angelo, Loïc, come, come, come, come, come, come, come. 1342 01:39:03.980 --> 01:39:09.180 I think it's important to see Camille, obviously, and others. 1343 01:39:09.180 --> 01:39:11.880 François, everyone who took part - come. 1344 01:39:11.880 --> 01:39:17.780 I think we really have to take the measure of just how 1345 01:39:17.780 --> 01:39:22.180 collective this project is. Karine, obviously, as well, 1346 01:39:22.180 --> 01:39:24.580 and so many others. 1347 01:39:24.720 --> 01:39:27.320 I'm obviously going to forget people, 1348 01:39:27.320 --> 01:39:31.320 that's certain. I'd tend to say Sébastien all the same, because after all 1349 01:39:31.320 --> 01:39:35.820 Sébastien was the one who said yes. So, a big thank you to everyone, 1350 01:39:35.820 --> 01:39:40.920 of course. 1351 01:39:40.920 --> 01:39:45.920 Sébastien, really. 1352 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:51.820 We've done the proof of concept. Version 1 is next year, and version 1 1353 01:39:51.820 --> 01:39:55.520 we'll pull off together. And so obviously we need means. 1354 01:39:55.520 --> 01:39:57.220 We need new partners. 1355 01:39:57.220 --> 01:39:58.920 We need strength. 1356 01:39:58.920 --> 01:40:04.420 We need appetite, and we need to know that all this makes sense. 1357 01:40:04.420 --> 01:40:05.820 And I think that today, 1358 01:40:05.820 --> 01:40:10.620 there we are, we have the pleasure of knowing that yes, it does. And I wanted to say a big 1359 01:40:10.620 --> 01:40:13.520 thank you to those who took part. So, Stéphane - music 1360 01:40:13.520 --> 01:40:18.820 is magic. Thank you for letting yourself be carried along. 1361 01:40:18.820 --> 01:40:23.120 And how much - what struck me 1362 01:40:23.120 --> 01:40:24.620 is that every time I went to talk about 1363 01:40:24.660 --> 01:40:27.160 the project somewhere, people said: yes, 1364 01:40:27.160 --> 01:40:29.260 what you're doing is completely obvious, yes, 1365 01:40:29.260 --> 01:40:34.760 it makes sense. And I didn't yet quite know why. But when the 115 1366 01:40:34.760 --> 01:40:37.760 points lit up, all those initiatives - yes, 1367 01:40:37.760 --> 01:40:41.060 we're holding a subject that's really there, and it's up to us to keep it alive. 1368 01:40:41.060 --> 01:40:43.060 So long live the republic, long live maps. 1369 01:40:43.060 --> 01:40:49.060 And 1370 01:40:54.460 --> 01:40:56.460 now, I think we can eat. There we are.